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**Johnny R** · 12-04-2007, 10:27 AM

References

For all three units there is nothing on Lexicon but this, they changed designations after the French Campaign. That said there is information listed for where they were. This came from somewhere. For all of them I would contact the BundesArchiv. It sounds like you are doing hard research but do not tell them you are a collector. I hope you speak German?

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/...sionen/4ID.htm

IR 52:

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/...enter/IR52.htm

Commander at the time of the French Campaign:

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/...enter/IR52.htm

IR 103

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/...nter/IR103.htm

Those three units only existed for short periods of time during the War. I would suggest looking at the Histories of the Units they became later. There might be some descriptions of the earlier events. These are all associated with the 4th ID.

You can look in Georg Tessins and George Nafzigers works, if there is nothing on the specific unit look through these books and general books o the Army like them in references cited for more sources. These may give you the document titles/catalog numbers to ask for at the BundesArchiv etc.

There may have been a Veterans organization for these units. They usually do not have websites but you may see them on a list posted somewhere.

Good luck.

**Larry deZeng** · 12-04-2007, 11:21 AM

j.h. -

The guy is looking for nitty-gritty detail between 8 and 12 June 1940. He'll have to go to Freiburg and check the divisional records of the division(s) those regiments belonged to at the time. Most divisional records for that time period survived the war and are at Freiburg. As I said above, all of the regimental records were destroyed when the Heeresarchiv in Potsdam was hit by bombs in 1944-45 and caught fire. This is a subject that has been addressed many hundreds of times here, on Axis History Forum and on Felgrau over the past years. (If only folks would learn how to use the SEARCH function!).

--Larry

**Jonathan M** · 12-04-2007, 12:18 PM

Originally posted by Marc Pilot View Post

Regimental Kriegstagebücher und Anlagen were all destroyed when Allied bombs hit the Heeresarchiv in Potsdam.

--Larry

Damn barbarians

**Larry deZeng** · 12-04-2007, 12:52 PM

Damn barbarians

Not as bad as the Luftwaffle. Their records survived and were put in box cars hooked onto a long train that took them to Karlsbad in Sudetenland. On 3 May 1945, Göring ordered everything burned. Troops sloshed down the 70 or so box cars with petrol borrowed from a nearby Heeres-Pi. unit and torched 'em. That's why today we only have about 4% of the Luftwaffe's wartime records.

--Larry

**Marc Pilot** · 12-04-2007, 01:15 PM

Hi everybody

I have got a copy of the ID4 Ktg and around the paper you can see some burning traces, fortunatly only few words are missing.

I know Freiburg Archives place and it is because it is difficult to do some research when you are not a good german speaker that I asked if there was books.

This idea to have a look in the regiments they became is a good one.

Thanks.

**Johnny R** · 12-04-2007, 02:33 PM

Originally posted by Marc Pilot View Post

Hi everybody

I have got a copy of the ID4 Ktg and around the paper you can see some burning traces, fortunatly only few words are missing.

I know Freiburg Archives place and it is because it is difficult to do some research when you are not a good german speaker that I asked if there was books.

This idea to have a look in the regiments they became is a good one.

Thanks.

Everything is going to be in German as far as records and diaries notes etc. will be in Sutterlinschrift. A lot of Regiments had little unit newspapapers but these are rare to find. You will need to find some to help you, I imagine there are people who will work for pay doing research that live in Freiburg or BW.

**Simon O.** · 12-04-2007, 04:56 PM

You might want to order microfilm roll T315-189 from NARA. This is the relevant roll with parts of the war diary of the divisional operations branch (Ia) for the dates you're interested in.

By the way, NARA is now running a pilot project whereby you can request microfilm rolls on DVD. You have to specify DVD on your order form.

This is what it includes.

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**Johnny R** · 12-04-2007, 05:37 PM

Dvd

Originally posted by Simon orchard View Post

You might want to order microfilm roll T315-189 from NARA. This is the relevant roll with parts of the war diary of the divisional operations branch (Ia) for the dates you're interested in.

By the way, NARA is now running a pilot project whereby you can request microfilm rolls on DVD. You have to specify DVD on your order form.

This is what it includes.

That is great news, nice to see not all of our tax dollars are being thrown down the toilet.

**Simon O.** · 12-05-2007, 06:47 AM

Originally posted by jhodgson View Post

That is great news, nice to see not all of our tax dollars are being thrown down the toilet.

I heard of it just last week. They'd manage to screw up an order i'd sent in, whoever processes them had changed the ordered T312 (armies) to T314 (corps) so i got sent the wrong rolls. Anyway, a guy at NARA sent me an E-mail apologising for the FUBAR and asked if i'd like the rolls on DVD. Turns out they're in the pilot phase of the project which is why you won't find it mentioned on the website yet but if you specifiy DVD on the normal microfilm order form then they'll do it.

No more trips to the university library to borrow their readers!

I'll let the forum know what the quality's like and what format it's in when i get them.

**Jonathan M** · 12-05-2007, 08:23 AM

Originally posted by Simon orchard View Post

You might want to order microfilm roll T315-189 from NARA. This is the relevant roll with parts of the war diary of the divisional operations branch (Ia) for the dates you're interested in.

By the way, NARA is now running a pilot project whereby you can request microfilm rolls on DVD. You have to specify DVD on your order form.

This is what it includes.

What kind of price ranges are we talking about here Simon?

Thanks
Jonathan

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