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    #1

    Infanterie-Regiment 30

    Hello everyone,

    I recently purchased a very nice grouping on the e-stand, from a soldier who served with Infanterie-Regiment 30. However, I have been puzzled by an award document that came with it. The divisional commander, and the division mentioned on the document, is not 18. Infanterie-Division (IR30 was originally and mostly with 18.ID).
    The time given is September 1941. I posted this question on the internet, and someone replied it could be signed by Generalmajor Hans Zorn (20. Infanterie-Division). The signature seems a corect match, but I have difficulties to match the stamp with the 20. Infanterie-Division. What are your thoughts, gentlemen?
    Also, is anyone able to prove that IR30 served with 20.ID in the time given? I think Mußtolowo is to the north of Leningrad. Does that make sense?

    I look very much forward to your input!
    Thanks,
    Laurens
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    #2
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      #3
      Detail:
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        #4
        I think Mußtolowo is to the north of Leningrad. Does that make sense?
        Fortunately, there is only one MUSTOLOVO in the former USSR. It's located 37.4 km southeast of the city center of Leningrad and 8.1 km NW of Mga. That means that is was right on the perimeter around the city, which followed the Neva River at that time. So your assumption was correct regarding Leningrad, but in the wrong direction.

        Both 18. (mot) and 20. (mot) belonged to AOK 16/Heeresgruppe Nord at the time, although to different Armeekorps (I. AK and XXXIX. (mot), respectively). Beginning on 22 September, XXXIX. AK was heavily engaged in clearing the east bank of the Neva just south of Schlüsselburg, according to the KTB/OKW. Mentioned in the daily reports are the villages of Mustolovo, Lobanovo and Vyborgskaya.

        Once the east bank was cleared on 26 September, the divisions of XXXIX. AK began a determined attempt to cross the river but were thrown back by Russian counterattacks in up to battalion strength supported by determined air attacks. On 29 September, XXXIX. AK was reinforced with one-half of 254. ID and Fallschirmjäger-Rgt. 1 to strengthen the heavy fighting in this sector. During these last 10 days of September, 18. ID (mot) was engaged in the Volkhov area 75 km east of the Neva.

        Although KTB/OKW does not directly mention 20. ID (mot) or IR 30, at least we have a pretty good match on the Armeekorps, the Division and the village.

        --Larry

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          #5
          Thank you for your assistance, Larry! This information is helpful.
          I still hope someone has copies from the 20. ID divisional histories (apparently there are 5 books). Although written in German, they might give some clarity. On the few books I have from 18. ID, I could not find the needed information.
          All in all, I think the stamp probably refers to 20. ID and signature to Gen.-Maj. Zorn.

          Laurens

          Comment

            #6
            Laurens, if we wish to investigate a particular case for lower awards, books will usually be of no help. And if you really need to get more information than Larry has kindly provided, you should go to the archives and read microfilms, and that IS the fun part I would say.

            Comment

              #7
              Originally posted by Laurens Q-fin View Post
              Thank you for your assistance, Larry! This information is helpful.
              I still hope someone has copies from the 20. ID divisional histories (apparently there are 5 books). Although written in German, they might give some clarity. On the few books I have from 18. ID, I could not find the needed information.
              All in all, I think the stamp probably refers to 20. ID and signature to Gen.-Maj. Zorn.
              Laurens
              Laurens -

              I did some more checking last night that might be of interest, yet it still does not provide a definitive answer to your question on IR 30. Paul Carell's Hitler's War on Russia (London: George G. Harrap & Co. Ltd, 1964), pages 258-70, has a quite detailed account of XXXIX. AK (mot)'s drive north from around the Novgorod area to the Neva south of Schlüsselburg during the first half of September. There is frequent mention of both 18. and 20. ID (mot) and many of the regiments involved, but he never mentions IR 30. However, he does state that Zorn's 20. ID was "reinforced" around 6 or 7 September when 18. ID was split off from the spearhead and sent eastward toward Volkhov. I wonder if this suggests it was IR 30 that was temporarily taken away from 18. ID and attached to 20. ID?

              Regards,

              --Larry

              Comment

                #8
                According to Asmus, Gruppe Schwerin secured Neva region in early September, which was consisted of K.S.30, III./I.R.30 and III./I.R.76.

                Do you feel better now?

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                  #9
                  Do I sense a little bit of sarcasm there, Akira ?

                  For me personally and in regards of award documents (no matter how small or significant they are), I always like to find the story, history or any other information behind it (and in as much this is possible). Books are indeed of low value when researching lower awards. But I do like to read sections in divisional history books when looking for a specific unit, their whereabouts, the commanding officers, etc...
                  In as much I would love to, but visiting archives and reading microfilms are not in my list of options. When books aren't helping me, I turn to the forum in search of someone who is so kind to provide help. And that is what you and (especially) Larry have provided here.


                  Laurens

                  Comment

                    #10
                    For me personally and in regards of award documents (no matter how small or significant they are), I always like to find the story, history or any other information behind it (and in as much this is possible). Books are indeed of low value when researching lower awards. But I do like to read sections in divisional history books when looking for a specific unit, their whereabouts, the commanding officers, etc...
                    In as much I would love to, but visiting archives and reading microfilms are not in my list of options. When books aren't helping me, I turn to the forum in search of someone who is so kind to provide help. And that is what you and (especially) Larry have provided here.
                    That is what I would call a perfect response, Laurens. I am only too happy to spend some time helping others with their research provided they are truly interested and have at least made an attempt on their own to answer the question. I think most others feel the same way, too. Best wishes to you for a successful outcome on this. I wish I had those microfilms so I could look it up for you. I own 760 rolls of the microfilmed German military records, but unfortunately none of them is for that time and place.

                    --Larry

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Plain facts in the first message (#6).

                      When I post a reply message on the forum, I think not only of the original poster but also many silent readers of the forum. Therefore, I write not only to you, but also to the future members who will ask a similar question.

                      I felt Larry's information was enough for your initial purpose to verify the relationship between IR30 and 20ID, when no immediate red flags are seen on the document. I wasn't sure what you were looking for in addition to that, just the "documented" relationship of IR30 and 20ID or detailed accounts - yes, you will find detailed information regarding awards / KIA / MIA etc. in KTBs of lower level units. If anyone has access to KTB of III/IR30 or IR30, you will probably get a real answer to your question.

                      When I returned home last night I went to the bookshelf to read Asmus (20ID) and found the information I posted. Therefore a simple question, was that enough?

                      By the way, Asmus books are still available!

                      http://home.planet.nl/~20.panzergren...on/Verkauf.htm

                      Order now from Roger!

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Hello,

                        The document looks authentic imho.

                        The most logical explanation is that this part of IR30 was temporary placed under the command of the 20 ID, perhaps to reenforce the 20 ID against a red army counter attack.
                        The EK2 was a bravery award, so he most likely preformed an act of bravery worth of the EK under the command of the 20ID.
                        German generals are flexible in shifting units temporary from one division to another to reenforce them.

                        Cheers,
                        Peter

                        Comment

                          #13
                          A sample page from KTB A.A.122 - two EKII recipients are mentioned (sorry, names are blurred to prevent casual fakers from using them).
                          Attached Files

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                            #14
                            Thank you all for the information and sharing your opinions!

                            Laurens

                            Comment

                              #15
                              VERY common for a man to have the doc signed by commander of a different unit. Elements were attached short term or otherwise fought in support of another resulting in the award. You'll even find cross service (SS for Army, the reverse, etc). But for any of course check your operational history to insure not a fantasy or fake.

                              Mark C. Yerger

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