War service by former or later KZ members

[Angel Farré]

I like to know how SS officers ended in KZ and if someone can provide with war service details from this "soldiers". I know that Mengele served as medic in the Wiking division and won both EKs and the Black Wound Badge, anyone knows about others who served in frontline?

This is not something I have studied or interested to me, but in a conversation regarding the holocaust someone ask me if all the guards and commandants were Waffen SS soldiers of members of the Totenkopf verbande and I have no answer for him. In the little I have I see that some of them has rontline service, others were too old or not fit for frontline service and that sometimes Waffen SS members served for brief periods in camps due recovery from wounds, illness or waiting for reasignation to a combat unit.

Also I like to know your opinion about pieces relating to KZ and the holocaust, I have seen that sometime appears in the market Soldbuch, Wehrpass and documents related to them and they reach high prizes, but still I only know one Holocaust collector (he is not one of this crazy who deny the holocaust) but I fell his interest morbous, he has Zyclon B empty tin.

Angel

[rayman]

Angel,
I would advise you to refer to a book entitled "The camp men" by French McLean. It contains a lot of information about officers that served in the camp system, and also gives biographical info on a lot of them. This biographical info includes any service in the WAFFEN SS. It lists what camps they seved at etc. Hope this helps you a little.

Cheers,
Rayman.

[Angel Farré]

Thanks for the info, I'm looking more into the EM/NCO, I have heard so many "stories" about how the Waffen SS soldiers mistreat and killed those poor jews that I wonder who was fighting at the front. For what I can see camp guards were more older soldiers or not fit for combat asignment and a lot of East Auxiliary troops, but I wonder if individual cases of Waffen SS soldiers were temporary or definitive serving as camp personal. Also I wonder how many of this men had really the guts to fight and not only against poor people like jews, poles, gypsis, Russian P.O.W.s and all those who ended in the camps.

Angel

[rayman]

Angel,
I can tell you that MANY KZ SS personnel ended up at the front near the end of the war. This is why members of the LuftW and Heer ended up guarding the KZ at wars end.
Cheers,
Rayman.

[McCulloh]

Angel:
I also suggest you get a copy of the "Field Men"-and "the Camp Women" which are companion volumes to the book m,entioned above.
There was a significant, but not overwhelming cross polination of SS enlisted men as well as officers from KZ service to the Waffen SS. However, while it seems it was more than many Waffen SS authors might indicate, it was also far less than typical historians postulate. One of the interesting facets of the KZ men were the number of Death Camp officers who had accidents or were killed at the front. Indeed, entire units seem to have been obliterated, making one wonder if perhaps untidy details were being taken care of. in 1943-44.
Also, read "Ordinary Men" a summation of the experiences of a Reserve police battalion from Hamburg which was used in mass shootings in Poland. While a large number of the war diaries of the ORPO were supposed to be missing, recently a lot of ancillary documents have arisen from eastern archives and newly open files (or forgotten or neglected) in the US archives.
Lastly, if you are really interested, its possible to cross refernce some of these mass killers by their SS files and NASDAP files in Berlin or the USA.
The Holocaust Museum has quite a bit of stuff on these men and there are a number of articles on this sort of thing.

[Mike C]

Hello Angel,

May I also suggest "Soldiers of Destruction: The SS Death's Head Division, 1933-1945" by Charles Syndor? It is a useful look at the the 3d SS Panzer Division (Totenkopf) - and especially Eicke's role in its formation, training and employment. If you wish, send me a PM and I will happily send my copy to you on loan.

To follow on Jeff's recommendations above, "Hitler's Willing Executioners" builds on "Ordinary Men" (same author) to suggest a thesis of a society pre-disposed to genocide...

Mike

[McCulloh]

sniff

Actually, I think Goldhagen stole his "book" from Browning. It's a wonder Goldhagen dared to use footnotes. I think he got away with it because of his old man. I knew Daniel in Grad school and did not like him.
The actual court proceedings from the Police Reserve Battalion prosecutions in Hamburg are a detailed GOLDMINE of information.
They'll make you ill though.
Cheers,