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    #1

    Sturmgeschützabteilung 1357 Information

    For a history of the 357. Infanteriedivision I am looking for information about Sturmgeschützabteilung 1357. This unit was supporting the division on 5.12.1944 by Hatvan Hungary (bei Budapest).

    Also: is the number of the Sturmgeschützabteilung being 1357 a coincidence or did all Sturmgeschützabteilungen attached to divisions have Abteilung numbers of the division (the example Abteilung 1357 attached to 357. Infanteriedivision)???

    Thank you.

    Erich Craciun
    Tags: None
    #2
    hello Erich.

    Stug.Abt. 1357 does not appear in two Stug.reference books I have nor does it appear as a Stug.Abt. operating as such or as later so-called Stug.Brigade 1357 in Tessin. The Stug.units usually operated as "Heerestruppen" thus not part of a division with very few exceptions. Stug.Abt./Brig. were allocated on a need basis to certain Divisions or Corps for specific missions or duration. Tessin is somewhat murky about it but I understand that a Stug.Abt. 1357 was utilized to form part of the Pz.Jg.Abt. 357 which was component part of 357.I.D. A Stug.Abt. 1357 may have been originally formed to act as Pz.Jg.Abt. for 357.I.D. but was not strong enough to do so as Tessin mentions other units utilized in the final formation of Pz.Jg.Abt.357.
    BTW: 357.I.D. 's divisional units were all numbered 357.
    I hope the above is of some help.
    Bernhard H.Holst

    Comment

      #3
      Thank you.

      lI took this reference from the book Die Schlacht um Budapest by Krisztian Ungvary (Herbig 1999).

      Could it be possible that the 5 Sturmgeschütze mentioned in tbe above book were part of Pz.Jg.Abt.357?

      Also, Sturmgeschützabteilungen: how were they incorporated into Infantry divisions?



      Originally posted by bhholst
      hello Erich.

      Stug.Abt. 1357 does not appear in two Stug.reference books I have nor does it appear as a Stug.Abt. operating as such or as later so-called Stug.Brigade 1357 in Tessin. The Stug.units usually operated as "Heerestruppen" thus not part of a division with very few exceptions. Stug.Abt./Brig. were allocated on a need basis to certain Divisions or Corps for specific missions or duration. Tessin is somewhat murky about it but I understand that a Stug.Abt. 1357 was utilized to form part of the Pz.Jg.Abt. 357 which was component part of 357.I.D. A Stug.Abt. 1357 may have been originally formed to act as Pz.Jg.Abt. for 357.I.D. but was not strong enough to do so as Tessin mentions other units utilized in the final formation of Pz.Jg.Abt.357.
      BTW: 357.I.D. 's divisional units were all numbered 357.
      I hope the above is of some help.
      Bernhard H.Holst

      Comment

        #4
        Hello Erich.

        Stug.Abt. later called Stug.Brigade (without there being an increase in strength) were operating under tactical command/control of divisions to which they were allocated when deployed for active operations.
        Due to equipment shortages some units could only be partially formed and may have been utilized for the formation of Pz.Jg.units as it seems to be the case with Pz.Jg.Abt. 357. As you know 357.I.D. was formed in 1943. So this Abteilung could well be equipped with a mixture of weaponry with some Sturmgeschuetze remaing on its rolls by the end of 1944. The number of five you quoted seems to bear that out.
        Bernhard H.Holst

        Comment

          #5
          Though called "StuG", Abteilungen like 1357 are not actually Sturmartillerist but Panzerjäger, if I remember correctly...

          Comment

            #6
            'Abteilung' would appear to be an ambitious word for what seems to be a kompanie or even zug sized sub-unit. A good few divisions received a handful of Stugs for their Panzerjäger abteilung. These being given their own number in the 1000 series along with the number of the Pz.Jg.Abt.

            To show you what i mean here's the TO&E of Panzer Jäger Abt. 14 (L) of the 14 LW field division as at 1 May 1945. As you can see the small Stug detachment of 4 StugIII kept it's own number, 1014 (L) even though it was a part of the Pz.Jg.Abt.

            Collecting German award documents, other paperwork and photos relating to Norway and Finland.

            Comment

              #7
              Stug Abt. 1357

              Stug. Abt. 1357 came about from a 1944 order in which the 2nd (StuG) companies of Panzerjaeger battalions were given numbers in the 1000 series. So this unit came from the 2. Kompanie of Panzerjaeger Abt. 357. This information came from George F Nafziger's book, The German Order of Battle:Panzers and Artillerie in World War II. You can also find reference to it at the website: http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/...rzeichnis1.htm. Here is their info:
              Panzerjäger-Abteilung 357

              Aufgestellt am 26. November 1943 aus dem Stab und der 2. Kompanie der Panzerjäger-Abteilung 327, einer Fla-Kompanie und einer Sturmgeschütz-Abteilung 1357.

              Ersatztruppenteil war die Panzerjäger-Ersatz-Abteilung 357.

              Comment

                #8
                Urkunde

                Here you can see an example of this with two award documents to the same soldier. This first, for an EK II, is from the 2. Kompanie of Panzer Jaeger Abt. 5. of the 5 Infanterie (later Jaeger) Division.
                Attached Files

                Comment

                  #9
                  Urkunde #2

                  The next document is a wound badge to the same soldier. The unit is StuG Abt. 1005, but the stamp is to Panzer Jaeger Abt. 5.
                  Attached Files

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Thank you all for the information.

                    I now have written about 50 pages with fotos and documents about this relatively unknown division. My grandfather fought and died in the division. I am being transfered to Budapest and will continue my research 'vorort'.

                    So, can I assume that the Sturmgeschützabteilung 357 was the 2. Kompanie of the Pz. Jgr. Bataillon 357?

                    Attached is a part of my paperwork collection to the division. The Wehrpass of Karl Wagner who later transfered to 96. ID. after serving with 357. ID.
                    Attached Files

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Akira Takiguchi
                      Though called "StuG", Abteilungen like 1357 are not actually Sturmartillerist but Panzerjäger, if I remember correctly...
                      Yes, it shows the chaotic nature of the Germany Army that StuG vehicles were assigned to artillery (StuG Abt), anti-tank (Pz Jaeger), and tank (Panzer) units!

                      The formation of StuG companies in direct support of the infantry divisions was a controversial move. It took a scarce asset and distributed them out in penny packets - something which Guderian always ranted against. It was more efficient and flexible to keep the precious StuGs in Army-level units rather than have them pinned down at the division level. The decision to give divisions their own StuGs was made in the assumption that increased production levels would satisfy everyone's need for them - but those darned Soviets kept ruining these wonderful plans.

                      Comment

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