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    #1

    Unknown transport/ glider clasp

    Right this one really has me scratching my head- normally a purported early clasp with a block to the hinge would make me run a mile but not so on this one, it has many features that I like.

    The most distinctive feature apart from the hinge and very thin flat catch is the heavy use of hand cutting to the edges- even the top of the wreath tie has been finished with a tiny fret saw!

    It once had a pendant which has been removed and the traces carefully filed away.

    From the hand finishing I think it may be something to do with Meybauer?? Although the design differs slightly from the zinc pieces attributed to them.

    What do you think? Anyone seen such a clasp before??

    Many thanks

    Patrick
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    #2
    ,,,,
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      #3
      ////
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        #4
        ;;;;
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          #5
          I really don't like this one, the extra work that's been carried out on it would at least point to it being refinished at some stage.

          There are others more knowledgeable on this type of clasp than me so I will wait for others to comment but for me fake

          Comment

            #6
            Hello Pat, i also don't lile it either.

            Seb
            The German Luftwaffe Pilot and Combined Pilot and Observer Badges of WWII 1933-1945
            Volume I & Volume II

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            Now Available
            www.luftwaffepilotbook@gmail.com

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              #7
              Hi Patrick,

              Very interesting clasp you have found. I don't have anything that matches it in my files, neither original nor fakes. There are some things I like about it, but other things I don't:

              Positives

              1. Finish looks believable
              2. Pin and hinge look OK
              3. Clasp details look OK

              Negatives

              1. Block hinge on a tombak-based badge (classic mistake fakers make as you know).
              2. Eagle details are very poor and crude
              3. Rivet is big and bulky compared with oriignals, which are a good bit smaller and delicate-looking.
              4. I don't like the catch, not a type we see on other wartime Luft and Heer badges. EK makers sometimes use this type of catch, but even there its rare to find. I think Deschler might have used something similar.
              5. The small file marks. To me that is often a sign of fakes because the fakers are too lazy or cheap to make a cutter die that form fits the outer edges of the badge. All original Transporters use a "cookie cutter" to trim off the excess material after the clasp was stamped out. Whoever made this badge didn't go through the trouble of making a form fitting cutter so that tells me the production process was cheaper than we normally see with originals IMO. That is a red flag for me.

              All in all, I think the negatives outweight the positives with this one, but certainly one to keep on file to see if any others pop up or future information helps us out.

              Also interesting to note that this one appears to have had a hanger at one time, but has since been removed and ground-down flush.

              Tom
              Attached Files
              If it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a little

              New Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
              [/SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
              Available Now - tmdurante@gmail.com

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                #8
                To me the design looks like S&L. I am not a fan of this clasp because 1) the finish looks new and the rivit is covered with the gold finish, 2) the wreath is not proportional, 3) the eagle is a bit crude, and 4) the saw marks at the bottom of the wreath, and several other reasons.

                Comment

                  #9
                  S&L Bomber for comparison
                  Attached Files

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                    #10
                    Maybe it's your photos but the finish has a spray paint look to it. Try a little Acetone on the Gold. If it wipes off, it's paint.

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Brian S View Post
                      Maybe it's your photos but the finish has a spray paint look to it. Try a little Acetone on the Gold. If it wipes off, it's paint.
                      In would not call it spray paint, but given the major modifications this clasp has had done to it (if it is original which i doubt) it's definitely been refinished.

                      At best it's a refinished zinc clasp, heavily modified perhaps with a new eagle replacing a denazified one

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Thanks for the comments Guys,

                        Having it in hand I can tell you 100% that the clasp is not refinished- it is brass with fire gilt finish- this type of gilding often has a slightly rough texture to the finish- try and do that in your garage and you will burn your house down! Also there is no sign of the eagle having been removed, the rivet is perfect and tight.

                        The only alteration is the filing to the reverse which has removed the patina and a thin layer of finish- this is brighter gold in the photos.

                        The pin has also got a slight polish to it which is a good sign I think as this is something you see often on early tombak clasps.

                        RFleming wins the prize here- you are absolutely correct- the design is S&L- so now we are on the right track!

                        I have been looking to find one of the late war/early post war zinc O marked examples but have drawn a blank as far as transport goes- does anyone have an image of one if they do exist? It would be interesting to compare the eagle device.

                        Also does anyone own a 1941 or later S&L sales catalogue?

                        Here is the 57er version by S&L- same die with eagle modified
                        Attached Files

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Hi Patrick,

                          We do know of S&L Transporters, but they are all postwar IMO based on several factors. One mainly is that the quality isn't very good, certainly not anything we would expect from S&L. They can also be found with different maker marks (Osang, Juncker, etc.) which is a major red flag as you know. Also the hardware on them can only be found on postwar S&L badges, not something they used during the war. Additionally, all the postwar souvenier boards put together after the war by S&L of alledgedly wartime-produced leftovers have all flight clasps on them except one, the Transporter Clasp. So by many factors it doesn't appear that S&L made Transporter clasps during the war.

                          Here are a few S&L Transporters. The clasp body look identical to yours, but a big difference is the quality in the eagle on the postwar examples looks better and more detailed than yours IMO. There are some checkered examples made by S&L as well, so looks liked at least two dies at work by them..

                          Tom
                          Attached Files
                          If it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a little

                          New Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
                          [/SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
                          Available Now - tmdurante@gmail.com

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Here is another one, notice the better detailed eagle.

                            Also note the "o" on the reverse by the swastika. Yours doesn't have that so looks like at least two different reverse dies by S&L.
                            Attached Files
                            If it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a little

                            New Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
                            [/SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
                            Available Now - tmdurante@gmail.com

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Another. Seems to have the same type of catch as yours.

                              Tom
                              Attached Files
                              If it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a little

                              New Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
                              [/SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
                              Available Now - tmdurante@gmail.com

                              Comment

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