Pilot, unmarked: Zinker or Stinker?

[Egret]

Pilot, unmarked: Zinker or Stinker?

Greetings,
A dealer is offering this for $300. He seems to be knowledgeable, accessible and has a good reputation on EBay. (this however would be a private sale, so I wouldn’t have the EBay protection).

It looks good to my inexperienced eye, plate under the hook and nice detail. The price works for my (at least, near future) budget. I have many less collectable (or even damaged) pieces which I do enjoy. What does the group think?
Thank you,

Chris,
Aka Egret

[Egret]

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[Albert]

Hi Chris,

I don't have a zinker by this maker, only a Buntmetall Pilot and PO badges but it looks like an original unknown maker PB to me.

There are fakes of them too.

Best regards,
Albert

[Philippe DB]

Hi Chris,

but it looks like an original unknown maker PB to me.

Best regards,
Albert

Exactly, with an OSANG set-up and rivets that are not like the unknown maker

KR
Philippe

[Frank Heukemes]

....and an Assmann wreath!

AGAIN, a badge which looks believable, but is very strange because of the parts used.

Now what do we have in total?

1) We have several "unknown maker" badges (pilot, P/O and para) linked to OSANG per maker marks, which are not the standard Osang mark.

2) We have an almost equal number of "unknown maker" badges (pilot and para) linked to ASSMANN per maker marks and in this case here per wreath design.

All of the single elements of these badges are believable or even conform to known originals, but the COMBINATION of these elements makes these badges plain weird.

I am excited if this might lead us to some new knowledge in the future.

[Albert]

A FAKE? ...any pictures for comparison?

[Frank Heukemes]

Nobody said fake yet!

[Marc Garlasco]

Can we get someone to put the pics of the three badges next to each other? It might help in the analysis.
Marc

[Albert]

Nobody said fake yet!

Just checking, I think it is good so far. More photos of zinkers would be helpful.

[Egret]

Greetings,

So, it has an Osang hook and catch, but an Assmann wreath? Do the rivets look like one or the other, or neither?

I understand that the group has seen many “unknown maker” badges that seem to be combinations of parts. Some have incorrect maker marks (no MM in this case).

Is this a recent phenomenon, IMO indicating a new type of fake?

I remember a Submarine Badge I was looking at that was believable, but had an unusual detail (a thin metal connect between wreath and submarine at 6 o’clock). In the next few weeks 4 of them showed up on Epeir and Ebay. As no one had seen any of them before, and all of a sudden they became common, my conclusion was they must all be recent copies.

Here is the seller’s description:

“Luftwaffe pilot badge. This is a late-war zinc badge, no frills, but period made. This badge shows wear and has turned gray. It has lost almost all of its finish. No maker mark. Has small copper or brass colored rivets. The "C" catch is soldered to a base plate. I guarantee this badge to be made before May-1945.”

Thank you for your help. I believe the jury is still out? If so, I am looking forward to more insight.

Best Regards,

Chris,
Aka Egret

[Philippe DB]

Hi Egret,


Let there be no misunderstanding as far as I'm concerned this is an original late war zinc Pilot badge. The fact that lately we have seen quite a few badges that seem to be made up out of parts from different makers, however always linked in someway or another to the unknown maker just shows how little we actualy know once we're not looking at textbook badges.

I can only hope that more and more collectors will find the courage to look at and buy non textbook badges and also post these badges on the forum. Only by seeing more of them will it be possible to reach conclusions on the how and why of their existance.

KR
Philippe

[J Temple-West]

Numbers 7 & 8, incase anyone missed it..

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ad.php?t=88838

[Egret]

Pilot, unmarked: Zinker or Stinker?

Greetings,
I have purchased the badge for $275, shipping included. Technically as of last night we were still negotiating. When I get it I will post better pictures, weights and measurements. I understand this purchase is a little risky, but I have a 14-day return and what seems to be a reputable seller, if it does not go well.
Thank you for your help. I believe I posted 6 Pilot Badges that weren’t original, before finding this one.
An inexperienced collector, such as I am, would be hapless without this forum.
Gratefully,
Chris
Aka Egret

[Tom Yanacek]

Hello to all,
I agree with Philippe. I like this Pilot Badge, and despite the fact that it looks like a composite of parts by various firms, I would believe it to be an original wartime assembly. I would buy one just like the badge posted if one came along and if the price was right. Very interesting badge.
Best regards! Tom