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**Regen** · 06-02-2016, 04:27 PM

Lw

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**Tim Calvert** · 06-02-2016, 10:34 PM

Potential....but need close ups of the rivets please.

**Sebastien T** · 06-02-2016, 10:38 PM

For me rivets dont look textbook with these blurry pictures

Seb

**Regen** · 06-03-2016, 05:41 AM

hi, everybody!

I have made better photos: [IMG]

[/IMG][IMG]

[/IMG]

**Thomas Durante** · 06-03-2016, 05:58 AM

Hi Regen,

The new pics aren't much better, we need really good closeups of each rivet that holds the eagle to the wreath.

I really like the look of the finish on this one, hope the rivets turn out to be good because that would be very troubling if this one is refinished.

Tom

**Regen** · 06-03-2016, 06:10 AM

Hello Thomas

I have understood you- tomorrow I will make good photos as you ask

many thanks for the help

**e-maus** · 06-03-2016, 07:41 AM

Hi Regen
We would like to see something like this

Jacek

**Jelle M.** · 06-03-2016, 09:05 AM

No worries... that's an original po.
It has all the features.
Finish looks very good, very light worn. Still a fair amount of blueing left on the pin.
Also the polishing on the inner side seems to be preserved properly.
As i noticed on several on these po's the base metal of the bird seems
to have a lighter brown, almost goldish coloured tombak than it's regular pilot counterparts.
The hand filing at the end of the wings at the backside, is also something i
see more on these po's than on regular pilots.
I believe these non cut out version were the earliest po's made by Juncker.
They always have a very sharp strike. The Juncker employee was possibly recovering from a hangover
while doing the cutout on the feathers as it's done quiet messy...

In attachement my po... those filing marks very visible at the left wing.
Also an example for sale by militaria berlin has these.

http://www.militaria-berlin.de/main/...t&page=4#A3874

Rivets are slightly off standard for Juncker but still acceptable. I have seen the same type of rivets on other original J1 po's.
On most example the rivets are flattened at the top, while the ones on the example that started this thread, are more rounded.

A beauty!

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5 (1).jpg (117.4 KB, 107 views)

**e-maus** · 06-03-2016, 10:05 AM

Originally posted by Nightstalker View Post

...The Juncker employee was possibly recovering from a hangover
while doing the cutout on the feathers as it's done quiet messy...

And here I agree with Nightstalker

. The first image J1P/O, the second J2P/O

Jacek

**e-maus** · 06-03-2016, 10:14 AM

But catch in the discussed badge is not J1

+ discussion rivets ... it's not prejudge but it makes us think.
Jacek

**Jelle M.** · 06-03-2016, 10:48 AM

Hi Jacek,

i bet the J1 po you post has a cut-out between the talons.
It's a nice side by side comparison with a second model Juncker po.
You can see clearly that the method of cut-out is identical to each other.
That's another reason i believe the cut-outs came later.
Also the hand filing on the backside is most of the time absent on these versions.
When the pilot observer was issued in 1935, i think the earliest badges received more care and hand finishing as production was still quite low and the badge was still in an 'experimental' phase.
When the war came closer, and badges in general were reached out in much higher quantities, i think the working time on each badge decreased. More production, less time for each badge.

**Sebastien T** · 06-03-2016, 10:58 AM

Originally posted by Nightstalker View Post

I think the earliest badges received more care and hand finishing as production was still quite low and the badge was still in an 'experimental' phase. When the war came closer, and badges in general were reached out in much higher quantities, i think the working time on each badge decreased. More production, less time for each badge.

Agreed but some maker keep a good work, Deumer for example.

The PO look perfect to me but I never ever seen a round rivets before the J3 pilot production. Rivets will tell it.

Seb

**Jelle M.** · 06-03-2016, 11:11 AM

Hi Seb,

i was searching in my archive.
I recall this badge sold on waf some time ago.
It's in a very worn condition but still an original and nice po.
Just like the example that started this thread, it's a non cut out version.
The rivets on this example are very off standard for Juncker. Rounded,
with a pancake shape. Some would call this controversial but i have seen this type
on several other J1 po badges and they are totally unmessed with.
Credits to the owner of the badge.

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**Jelle M.** · 06-03-2016, 11:13 AM

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