Stupid Q ..

[Jos L C]

A very stupid question, the bigger planes of night fighter units, did they had a navigator ? (Ju 88..)
Sofar I haven't seen a pic with night fighter clasp and beo badge ..
What I did see is night fighters with the navigator bag ..
Bit of a mystery ..

Jos.

[Tim O.]

Hi Jos. Not a stupid question at all.

My understanding is there would be a pilot and two who would qualify for the ROAG. In the Bf110, Do17 or Ju88 there would be a rear gunner and also a radar operator. The position of Observer (navigator/bomb aimer) was not really needed.

[Brian S]

Yes from what I've ready no Observer. ROAG(s) played incredibly important and complex roles with the new radar sets and keeping up with ground control and fighting with "Window".

[Jos L C]

OK, thanks ..
Question was based on next pic, where you can see navigator bags carried by members of 10./NJG.

Jos.

[Brian S]

10./NJG 1? Guessing 1.

JU88 (C maybe). All black so early paint design.

Can you tell by the uniforms if that's 1940. At least this one no Lichtenstein.

[Jos L C]

10./NJG 5 Ju 88 C and it's 1943 ..

Jos

[Brian S]

You see code on fuselage so we can figure out whose plane in any other photo?

[Jos L C]

Some of the guys names .., Dihlmann, Glahl, Marchetti, Buchholz .. others ??

Jos.

[Tim Calvert]

IMO Nightfighter pilots faced very complex challenges. Obviously flying at night but also in terrible weather conditions on instruments picking up enough ice at times that the plane would not be able to sustain flight any longer.

Imagine having to bail out of a plane covered in ice that is spinning out of control... at night, while you are in cloud, with two props whirling a few feet away from you.

If you get out of that, you are probably in a snowstorm coming down into...maybe a lake....maybe the North Sea, or a blacked out town....or maybe a city on fire. At least you might be able to see the ground coming up from below if it's on fire. All the rest of the scenarios? Good luck with the landing. And if you break a leg, maybe it's a 3 mile walk to try to find a farm house.

If the weather doesn't get you, and neither does friendly flak or a British gunner, you still have to be lucky enough to avoid a collision.

After combat, you will need to make an instrument approach in the dark, with the air field mostly blacked out. Has your plane sustained damage? Will the flaps not come down at the last minute? Perhaps one of your tires has gone flat due to flak. You won't know until you touch down and your aircraft veers suddenly into the nearby trees.

If you had an engine failure, and dealt with that successfully, and are now trying to land it in a nasty crosswind on an icy runway (at night), don't decide it's not working out and attempt to climb out of there. Most likely the second engine will take you to the scene of the crash.

As far as having a navigator on board...the Germans made air traffic control a real art and there was typically a ground controller guiding the pilot. OF course in the quickly changing world of technology, the RAF was constantly working on new ways to jam the radio signals.

The entire night air war is rarely mentioned. Although it was one hell of an arena. Imagine all the cities blacked out. Try to navigate over that.
The air raid sirens waking the inhabitants of any town that was a possible target.

Searchlights in light blue and light purple (depending on whether or not it was a Master light guided by radar).

Flak exploding at altitude.

Exchange of tracer between bomber and fighter, the Brits used red and the Germans blue'ish green.

Sometimes a bomber would suddenly explode and rain down yellow, white, silver and red.

Quite a firework show.

For much of the war, 1000 bombers every night.

The goal of the RAF was to set every town in Germany on fire and burn it to the ground.
Lots of British airmen lost their nerve and couldn't fly longer and were labeled LMF by their government...Lacking Moral Fiber.
Once you had LMF on your record, you were relegated to peeling potatoes and mopping latrines...you would never get a good job again, including after the war.
I think they had a much higher ratio of "that" than other air forces because they could look down on the burning cities and knew that they were filled mostly with women, children and old folks.

And when I say RAF, a big portion of the guys doing the fighting were also Canadians, Aussies, New Zelanders, South Africans, etc.

Anyway, the night air war was one of the longest campaigns of the war.
40,000 to 80,000 killed in Hamburg in one night.
At least 30,000 killed in Dresden in one night, but that was not including up to a million refugees that were in town fleeing the Red Army.

On the other side, the RAF lost 94 four engine bombers one one night in Feb '44. Another 15 or 20 went down in the North Sea or crashed on landing due to damage sustained.

Anyway, it was a terrible time, but I sure love reading all the crazy stories that came out of it! Hats off to all those brave SOBs that did what they were ordered to do.
I will shut up now.

[wayne gosley]

Hi Tim
Thanks for this insight of the life of night flying aircrew, indeed very braves lads of the RAF and LW. To Me at least, increases my esteem of the night fighter spanges.

[Tim Calvert]

Wayne, I'm glad you appreciated my late night rambling

Was inspired to get the camera out today....
Picture includes tray and 4 abschussbecher to RK winner with 36 night victories.

[Tim Calvert]

<+~

[mwl]

Wayne, I'm glad you appreciated my late night rambling

Was inspired to get the camera out today....
Picture includes tray and 4 abschussbecher to RK winner with 36 night victories.

Incredible items,Tim
Thanks for sharing,
Mats

[armenjs802]

Very impressive.

[Silver]

Wow Timbermann, great dunkle Nacht stuff.......

Thanks for showing!

KR
Thomas