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**Rich G** · 08-15-2002, 05:51 PM

Hi Frank

I know Tim's pilot badge collection quite well and know he doesn't have a Meybauer. He will have a good opinion of this badge though, especially the eagle as he's a big Juncker fan and hopefully he will contribute when he can.

What about you Frank, what would be your gut feeling on this badge?

Rich

**Frank Heukemes** · 08-15-2002, 06:13 PM

Dear Rich,

Well if you ask me who can only offer gut feeling and no real expertise on pilot´s badges.... if I really have to answer, I would say that Mikael will not like my gut feeling. It might be the blurry scan but I do not like the "patina" on the reverse of the wreath at all. Nor does the base metal look right to me.

But, as I said, no expert and I do not want to "talk" a badge bad that might be ok if this blend of makers could be legitimate.

Just not for my collection, it seems I have enough odd badges

Cheers, Frank H.

**Jos L C** · 08-15-2002, 07:18 PM

Hi,
The wreath looks like P.M. and is probably copied of one of these IMO.
The eagle is Juncker and the hinge and catch is whatever,the solder looks new to me.
I think it's one of those "Hybride" badges of which the maker didn't care how it looked.
I don't believe this is a genuine PM badge,I don't like the back of the badge at all.....!
And where is Tim ???

Regards,
Jos.

**Yuri D.** · 08-15-2002, 09:09 PM

In Mike Tucker's "Collecting Military Badges of the Third Reich" there is a P. Meybauer Fallschirmjager badge (just the reverse)..

Yuri

**Rich G** · 08-16-2002, 02:03 AM

One question I keep asking myself is
"If this IS fake why take a PM wreath when they would have used the Juncker when they copied the eagle?"

I have a PM parabadge and the wreath is not the same either...
(ps although it looks flat it isn't, its concaved at the back, the eagle is firegilded over bronze)

Ooops! forgot I can't post pics while at work... here's the URL instead
http://rgordon4.tripod.com/decorations/id2.html

Before I forget, Mikael doesn't own this badge, he just has these pictures from his archives.

I've studied the badge further and to me it looks like the eagle has been cast... the details are not very sharpe on the front, and there's something about the back that doesn't look right.

IMO this is a copy, maybe someone trying to make PM badge. So for me the P Meybauer pilot badge still does not exist.

Rich

**mgidhagen** · 08-16-2002, 09:20 AM

Hmm... Another point which is rather strange is that most PM observers I have seen are made of (now tarnished) Feinzink, and the pilot badge seems to be made of a higher quality metal. However, I would not rule it out just because of a heavy silver plating - even though I agree with Munich that the tarnish is a bit odd. But, again, why make the effort to produce a (basically well-made) copy based on both Juncker and Meybauer designs...? I wonder where this badge is now...
/Mike

**Jos L C** · 08-16-2002, 01:13 PM

Hi,
The fakers probably have faked the Observer badge,so they had the wreath.
No Pilotsbadge eagle to mount on it,so they took another pattern,probably because PM didn't make Pilotsbadges !?
The "Juncker" eagle looks cast to me,look at the "concave" back,too smooth the edges etc.
IMO it's a fake badge and I've seen more combination wreaths and eagles that doesn't fit the original maker.
Fakers just didn't care how it looked years ago,aslong as they could sell it.

Regards,
Jos.

**Tim Calvert** · 08-16-2002, 04:40 PM

Hi guys,
I'm home and can't add much at this point. I agree that this badge is most likely a repro, and I like "Wasp's nest's" ideas on why there is a Juncker style eagle on a PM style wreath.

(F-15 just flew overhead as I'm writing!)

As for the PMs being mostly zinc, I know that Tim Ball has a nice tombak observer, maybe he can post some shots of the wreath.

Also.....I seem to remember a certain Luft collector with the initails "FS" sending me some scans of a purported PM pilot's badge......or maybe I'm becoming senile? FS, put down that Honor goblet full of Jagermeister and help out!

Andy Hopkins mentions PM as a maker of pilot's badges in his article. Andy are you out there? What are your current opinions?

**François SAEZ** · 08-16-2002, 05:11 PM

Well Huggly bear,

lets turn it this way:
There is actually no pilot badge made by Meybauer that I am confortable enough to put in my collection - if that means something for you

Now, if you have kept this picture (pilot badge marked PM) from I don't remember where, you could post it, but like the one posted here, well ..... not for me.

GT

**Tim B.** · 08-18-2002, 06:07 PM

Paul Meybauer Observer (Tombak)

Front and back. Let me know if there is any specific area you need close-ups of. I have the case as well.
Tim

Attached Files

meybauer obs f.jpg (26.5 KB, 233 views)

**Tim B.** · 08-18-2002, 06:09 PM

Rev:

Attached Files

meybauer obs r.jpg (22.2 KB, 232 views)

**Tim Calvert** · 08-20-2002, 02:20 PM

Here are some scans of a PM that FS sent to TC a while back. Now I see why FS says "not for my collection"
Hey MM, didn't you say that GP had a PM for sale?
Anybody ever see anything like this??

**Adrian** · 08-20-2002, 03:59 PM

Hi All,

Can any pilots badge expert tell me which makers (if any) used the type of hinge seen on Tim C`s b/w scans? I`ve seen a couple of badges with this type, including one in my collection, but I can`t seem to find out who made them.

Thanks in advance,
Adrian.

**Tim Calvert** · 08-20-2002, 06:51 PM

Hi Adrian,
There was a good discussion about those block hinge badges recently in the Member's Only section. check it out....

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...&threadid=9158

**Adrian** · 08-20-2002, 07:03 PM

Nice one, thanks Tim!

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