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    #16
    Well.......

    Originally posted by Flak88
    I would pay good money to see an award document for this!
    Marc
    How much do you want to pay me?

    I can take Luftwaffe helmet as payment

    Cheers,

    Felix

    Comment

      #17
      Felix,

      Well, I owe you - at LEAST a beer when I see you! But a PHOTO of someone wearing this badge will get you high praise indeed!

      Warm regards,
      Marc

      Comment

        #18
        Originally posted by Flak88
        Felix,

        Well, I owe you - at LEAST a beer when I see you! But a PHOTO of someone wearing this badge will get you high praise indeed!

        Warm regards,
        Marc
        Greetings Marc,

        Check out the link that Felix posted, frame #2 left side, he is wearing the LW Panzer badge

        @ Peter, I think that is a great question. Know one can really say for sure, my guess would be that their would most likely be some variations. I only say that because I always believed that the award never made it past the proto-type stage, even though the badge was awarded on paper. But, Erich's photo as well as award document and the example sold by Detlev suggest that perhaps a few proto-type pieces MIGHT be floating around, but that is speculation.

        Cheers,
        Joe

        Cheers,
        Joe
        What we do in life ehoes in eternity.

        Comment

          #19
          Joe,

          I greatly respect you and your knowledge, and I hope to have some good food in your restaurant one of these days, but looking at that photo I do not see anything more than a badge that could be a great many things.

          Sorry, but I remain skeptical.
          Marc

          Comment

            #20
            Same for me Joe. It looks more like his Luft Ground Assault Badge to me.
            Don
            pseudo-expert

            Comment

              #21
              MAN!!! what a pretty badge!!

              Joe i wish you would have told me about this badge, i would have picked it up for sure.... who picked it up???
              if it ever comes back on the market please anybody let me know....


              ALSO i really loved the cased spanish cross for the family!!!! really nice!!!

              thanks greg
              Last edited by Gregory Koepp; 10-08-2004, 02:37 PM.

              Comment

                #22
                Hi Joe.

                I read your answer and I think I have to refrase my question. Is it plausible that badges with different details than this specific design would be pre-45 manufactured i.g. different catch or pin?

                KR
                Peter

                Comment

                  #23
                  Greg,

                  Here is another (bottom page) - have at it:

                  http://collectrussia.com/showcat.htm?cat=GermanMedals

                  Marc

                  Comment

                    #24
                    I started this thread.....

                    ... because I was surprised to see one of these. This makes the second, and the Collect-Russia badge the third I've seen. I have no hands-on experience with this badge, but what I can say is:
                    The Box and tissue are consistent with period examples. Hands-Down.
                    The paper tag on a box is new to me, but I am sure if you search your photo data bases you will find similar typed paper tags glued to plain brown issue envelopes.
                    The material, finish, hinge and catch are consistent with known, late-war (and unknown maker by name) Luftwaffe GAB's and Pilot Badges. These badges all seem to have the crude pin/hinge and fat, ugly diecast catch. In addition, fat, ugly rivets, crudely finished, appear on these era badges. This style of badge is readily accepted by a great many people with no doubts whatsoever.
                    You can say what you will as this badge will always be contentious amongst collectors. Reality is the badge was issued and awarded in it's basic (un-numbered) format prior to the end of the war. Eric Queen's document and photos (IMO) are proof-positive of what a great many of us had already accepted. Now this badge in a numbered format might have been awarded but seriously doubted to have been made as anything other than pre-production samples, and even then, a serious maybe.........
                    One of the other examples I saw photos of had a document also and was again in the basic (Schwarz) style, with identical features, rivets, pin, catch etc.

                    Comment

                      #25
                      Wow! LW Panzer badge?? What did the Panzers have to do wit hthe LW? What kind of unit was this?? Rudel's tank destroyers? Or some kind of planned airborn armored forces?
                      The World Needs Peace

                      Interesting photo archive: http://www.lostbulgaria.com

                      Comment

                        #26
                        All,
                        With all due respect. I believe if you take a high-dpi scan of that photo and enlarge it you will see it is a Luftwaffe Ground Assault Badge. Just MMHO.
                        Regards,
                        Marc

                        Comment

                          #27
                          Eric forwarded me the photos when he received the group, and using Photo Shop to lighten the image, it's pretty clearly a ground combat badge, not a tank badge, in the photo. Eric's document, the document which George Petersen had in his collection, and the handful of Soldbuch entries which have been seen for this award are NOT proof that the badge was ever produced, only that awards of it on paper took place. The requisite badges themselves did not always accompany the document and ceremony. Many EKI's and Knights Crosses, for example, were awarded in the field late in the war using converted EKIIs. I have the EKI belonging to Gerhard Volkmann, a Sanitäter in Fallschirm-Sturmgeschutz-Abteilung 12, for example, which is an EKII with the jump ring cut off. It came directly from Volkmann, sewn to his wrapper, and this is shown in "German Paratroops" by Robert Kurtz, together with a photograph of Volkmann wearing the exact badge in which the black threads holding the "EKI" to the uniform are clearly visible. It was a late-war (April '45) award in the Cuxhaven pocket, and they didn't have any EKI's. Until the day when an incontrovertible photograph of a man wearing the tank badge is produced, the actual production of the badge itself during the war will remain unverified. If forgers can fake a Van Gogh painting well enough to fool international museum experts, they can certainly make a little potmetal badge. Original period boxes like that, original period paper like that, and WWII German typewriters can be found at every German flea market every day.

                          Comment

                            #28
                            If forgers can fake a Van Gogh painting well enough to fool international museum experts, they can certainly make a little potmetal badge. Original period boxes like that, original period paper like that, and WWII German typewriters can be found at every German flea market every day.
                            Amen to that. Nobody ever produced a photo of one of these being worn and no veteran from any unit whose members would have received this badge has stepped up to the plate to support the argument that the Luftwaffe Tanker Badge was given out and worn before the end of the war. On the contrary, German veterans of the Hermann Göring and other Luftwaffe armored units say when asked that they never saw such a badge. The only people who argue for the badge seem to be dealers, which figures.

                            But the guys here saying they're sorry they missed out on this badge can get an identical one from www.collectrussia.com. It doesn't have the little box but it is the same thing and Ivan is a sponsor of this website. He confirms that it is exactly the same as the one in Detlev's catalog. So let's see you rushing to buy it! Who will be first in the stampede? Maybe Ivan will give me 3% commission if he makes a sale because of this ! That's $87. It's only $2,900, which is a real bargain for such a rare badge.

                            Dave Irving
                            Last edited by Dave Irving; 10-09-2004, 05:49 AM.

                            Comment

                              #29
                              -

                              At least some were produced. In a Luftwaffe Verordnungsblatt one is pictured. If I remember correctly it´s pictured in Forman´s book.
                              I don´t think that Detlev Niemann would have sold it if there was a questionmark about it.

                              Comment

                                #30
                                My goodness you are naive! I don't think Detlev Niemann or any other dealer has been personally annointed by God, and no higher percentage of Niemann's merchandise is original than any other dealer. Do you actually believe that the photographer went to the end of the factory line and photographed a finished badge? Do you believe in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy?? The fact that a craftsman made a sculptural model or artist's mock-up of the badge, probably much larger than an actual badge, to illustrate the Verordnungsblatt, certainly does NOT mean that the badge went into production. The badge model photographed is like a concept car at the Paris Auto Show -- there's only one, it's handmade, and you can't buy one because it's not in production. It's merely a prototype (often not even made out of metal) to show journalists a concept. Sometimes the level of naivete on this Forum just stuns me.

                                Comment

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