Bomber Badge with clasp - Real or Fake

[HerrFarrow]

Ladies/Gents

Fleamarket find...

Looking to ascertain the originality of this luftwaffe badge.

Also looking for educational pointers as to key aspects where fakes can be identified over real (regardless of what this turns out to be)

Greatly appreciate your time

[IMG][/IMG]

[Wood]

The clasp looks OK, but the Assman mark is spurious. The flower pendant should be zinc.
I presume its a gold clasp though it looks silver on my monitor.
Pete

[Lubo]

That's a great find! Assmann logo stamped to the back - I like the looks of it, funny the hanger looks to be tombac also, for what it's worth I like it!

[Ludwig]

To be honest, I don´t know if I really like this one! Try to get more and better photos, please.

[HerrFarrow]

Not sure what more you want photos of, here's 3 other angles.
The clasp does look a slightly different metal type as you would expect.
The whole badge is not magnetic

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[Dai]

A casting fake for me...

[Dai]

A casting fake for me...

[AndyC]

To be honest, I don´t know if I really like this one! Try to get more and better photos, please.

I´ll agree this one is a tricky one


Andy

[Thomas Durante]

Hi guys,

This is a fake for me as well. Weird base metal that both the clasp and the pendant are made of (big red flag IMO). Big flaws in the clasp, on the reverse and obverse (swastika area). Casting pits in the base metal and pendant. Also, the pin is weird and not typical of any flight clasp maker. Spurious mark mark is also a red flag.

Tom

[AFF96]

Just looks to sloppy to me as well. it sure would be cool to find a good one with that MM.

[HerrFarrow]

So... from comparing with these real examples I don't see a whole lot differs?

http://www.anaspides.net/military/av...luftwaffe.html

Even the four holes are drilled exactly as one would expect.
The pin seems to have the right bend and hinge type too.

My main "worry" was did Assman do clasps, they definitely did post war so reasonable to assume they could have mid war.

One last pic if it helps! Appreciate your time. Thanks

[IMG][/IMG]

[Thomas Durante]

No, Assmann is not known to have made flight clasps during the war. But that doesn't meant they didn't make them, just that we haven't found any marked that were believable.

There is a certain type of Bomber Clasp that is suspected of being made by Assmann based on circumstantial evidence, but its not proven. Its a different type of clasp than yours:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=452991

Another big red flag on your example HeerFarrow, is that the center reverse is very smooth, another sign its a cast fake. On the original type of bomber clasp that yours is pretending to be, the center was milled out by a machine, leaving distinct, deep circular grooves. Yours has these marks, but they are very faint and were likely picked up by the casting process. They are not real groove marks done by a machine, they were picked up by the casting process leaving them much smoother than originals.

Also notice the edges of yours are very sloppy. They don't appear to have good shear marks like originals should. That is more evidence that it was cast, and then cut around the edges by hand or some other sloppy method.

Here is an original clasp that yours is trying to be in my opinion (from Alex's excellent collection.

Tom