Opinions needed on Luftwaffe Honor Goblet...

[dzyner]

Hi all.

I came across this Honor Goblet and would like some opinions on it from the experts. I know there are a lot of fakes circulating out there so I wanted some feedback before I even consider purchasing it. If it's a good one, how would you rate the condition? Note... the color differences you see in the photos are simply reflections of the surroundings when photographing in two different areas.





















Thanks!
Dzyner

[rfleming32]

To me your goblet is original. I do not think they are successfully well reproduced at this time. It looks as though it has been cleaned with an abrasive cleaner leaving some fine scratches most noticeable in your pictures in the foot. Also looks like there is remnants of the cleaner in the cracks and crevices here and there. My biggest concern was the interior. It looks like there is staining of some sort that does not look like silver tarnish to me. If it is other than tarnish will it come out? Cannot tell if the cleaning damaged the finish other than scratches but the surface looks "dry" especially around the foot. Doesn't look like it has any dents and sits up stratight without a wobble. It does have some wear as evidenced by the lack of beading in some areas of the cross. The good news is your goblet is silver. I would say it was in good condition but shows evidence of wear and cleaning. You should research the recipient as that makes a difference in value.

[dzyner]

Thanks for the feedback rfleming32! I really appreciate all the great info. I'd love to hear from others about your thoughts on this. I think rfleming32 got the condition spot on, but I always like to hear multiple opinions before I spend the money on something like this.

[kaiserwilhelm2]

Hi, I do not think I would buy this one. The foot of it has been treated in such a way that it has lost its shine. People who buy one usually want a pristine one which IMO this one is not. So you will have some difficulty reselling it. Cheers, W

[dzyner]

Thanks for the reply kaiserwilhelm2. I agree the base looks dull, which may just be the angle and lighting since other shots also appear to be dull, but the same shot under another lighting situation seem to shine it up some.

Aren't these (the 835 ones anyway) solid silver? If so, wouldn't that base shine right up with some polish? It appears to have already been polished anyway (see rfleming32's post), so what's the harm in giving it another round? Just a thought.

[Tim O.]

Hi Dyzner

Wilhelm knows far more about Goblets than I will ever know but for me every one is special. An Iron Cross is a badge that could be replaced by going into an authorised dealer but each Goblet was named to the recipient and unique. No other German combat award of WW2 was named to the recipient so these things are really special.

I agree with Richard (Fleming), see what you can find out about the recipient as this can really affect the value and desirability. Wilhelm is certainly correct that a lot of collectors will seek only perfect examples but those more interested in the man behind the award than the award itself will want to know his history.

Have a look on WAF for threads about cleaning Goblets - I know some of the guys here have done some fantastic work bringing the silver back to life.

Do you know the full name? I can't see it in the photos but found the following listed from what I can see:

Fw Franz Ballweg 10. Transp.Geschw 3 awarded 1944
Obfw Franz Barten 11. JG 51 awarded 1942

The fighter pilot would interest collectors more than the transport man. Interesting that this is a silver Goblet and not particularly early if it is either of these men.

[kaiserwilhelm2]

Hi Tim,

Pokal reads 27.5.41 if I read correctly.

Barten got it officially 20.10.41.

I know there is mostly some difference between the engraved date and the date awarded but not 5 months.

Dyzner, please reveal the last name of Franz.

Cheers, W