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“Brehmer Markneu Kirchen” Luftwaffe Flak badge- a FAKE????

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    “Brehmer Markneu Kirchen” Luftwaffe Flak badge- a FAKE????

    This morning, while doing my usual rounds of the major dealer websites, I came across an article that set me back on my heels. Perhaps you saw it. If not, the article (written by a well-known militaria dealer) contends that all the "Brehmer Markneu Kirchen" marked Luft Flak badges are FAKE!!

    Now...most of us KNOW that there ARE in fact fake versions of the “Brehmer Markneu Kirchen” Luft Flak badge...BUT, this article alleges that ALL “Brehmer Markneu Kirchen” marked Flak badges are fake…that the ONLY authentic Gustav Brehmer Flak badges are marked “GB”!!


    Well, this was news to me, and after studying the article I came to the conclusion that some of the article’s supporting arguments don't appear legitimate or well-founded. Accordingly, several well respected collectors from this forum were consulted on this issue, and the consensus is that article is…(how can I put this delicately?).. PREPOSTEROUS!!!

    In a day-long discussion with a number of knowledgeable forum members, virtually EVERY POINT made in the article was either disputed and/or contradicted:

    1) The article claims that “Brehmer Markneu Kirchen” badges have “poor detail to the eagle” and a “misformed beak”. To this we would respond with the attached scan of a “ Brehmer Markneu Kirchen” marked badge that clearly shows a well-detailed eagle and a beak is that is NOT misshapen.
    http://photofile.homestead.com/files/brehmer3.jpg


    2) The article states that there is a “half-hearted attempt at the drill hole” of the full-named badges. Again, the attached scan of a “ Brehmer Markneu Kirchen” marked badge shows only minor flashing behind the drill-hole – SO WHAT? Flashing is not unusual on authentic badges! What kind of proof is that?
    http://photofile.homestead.com/files/brehmer2.jpg


    3) The article states that Gustav Brehmer badges were only marked “GB”. This is a particularly interesting comment since the author of the article has a Brehmer 1938 Kriessieger badge in his catalog with the name spelled out in full, thus negating the assertion that the “GB” mark is the only valid mark. It is also noted that Brehmer made most HJ Kreissieger, Gausieger and Reichsieger badges and that many Brehmer pieces are typically marked "G. BREHMER MARKNEUKIRCHEN ".

    It is also curious that the firms of Juncker, Assman, Gebruder Schneider Wien., JMME, Gebruder Wegerhoff Ludenscheid, Richard Simm & Sohn, Schwerin, Rudolf Souval, Rudolf Karneth, Hermann Aurich, et al. were all known to have more than one mark....but this author claims that Gustav Brehmer only has ONE mark. Curious, indeed! Where is his proof?

    4) The article claims that upon ”asking collectors if any have had these (“full-named” marked) badges vet acquired the answers have been no.” Obviously the author failed to ask the question of one of the Forum’s long-time collectors who lives in Germany…, because THAT particular collector had, in fact, obtained a full-named Brehmer Flak badge from the widow of a German soldier. How many collectors were asked this question?


    In addition, it seems that the article in question has drawn upon scans that have been previously published by a well-known and respected German Dealer who contends that the “Brehmer Markneu Kirchen” marked badges are in fact AUTHENTIC.

    In summary, it is the OPINION of a number of established members of this forum that, contrary to the assertions in the aforementioned article, there are Original full-named “Brehmer Markneu Kirchen” marked badges, and there are Copies of “Brehmer Markneu Kirchen” badges, and they look like this:


    Other opinions are welcome.
    Visit my Badge Collection: http://lbmilitaria.homestead.com/home.html

    #2
    Jamie, you got some 'splainin to do. You don't actually believe what is in your article, do you?? Say it ain't so. And you may want to apologize to a certain German dealer whose pics you appropriated.
    WAF LIFE COACH

    Comment


      #3
      Here is the link to the article by Jamie Cross.

      http://www.thirdreichmedals.com/alert.html

      I too would like to hear some type of explanation for the points put forth in this article.

      I really feel he has done a disservice to the collecting community online and abused his status and platform as a knowlegable and friendly dealer to offer up this kind of incomplete misinformation.

      We deserve a response.

      Accidentally offending people on the internet since 1997

      Comment


        #4
        I recently discussed this with Tim Calvert, both of us do have a very detailed Brehmer Flakbadge with fully spelled out makers mark. Stating that all fully spelled out Brehmer flak badges are bogus is ridiculous.
        Mine is not exactly vet obtained, but bought from my best source back in 1979. Flak badge came with its case and was in EXACTLY THAT case for a long time as one can tell by marks left by EXACTLY that badge. Both case and award are undoubtedly original.
        I have shown this badge on this forum before, but here we go again:

        Cheers, Frank H.
        Attached Files
        Cheers, Frank

        Comment


          #5
          reverse
          Attached Files
          Cheers, Frank

          Comment


            #6
            case
            Cheers, Frank

            Comment


              #7
              open case
              Cheers, Frank

              Comment


                #8
                Frank;

                That is an absolutely wonderful AND original example of a fully named Brehmer Flak badge.

                Mr. Cross, I feel as Mark does and all I can say is I'm totally amused by your article. Not only do you present nothing as far as documentary evidence, you also have on your website as of this posting badges with the name spelled out AND you have even sold these type of badges. Does this also mean that now everyone who purchased a spelled out Brehmer badge from you should return them for a refund since you're essentially admiting by way of your article that you've sold fake badges?
                Best regards,

                Tony

                Comment


                  #9
                  Well I must say it is distressing to see this thread but here is my 2 cents worth.... it is my opinion that the full named Brehmar flak badges were solely the early tombac versions and that the G.B. marked pieces were the mid to late war versions primarily(i have only seen) made of zinc. I have an unmarked Brehmer that is listed on my web site in the gallery section that came with a large luftwaffe grouping with documents. This badge was issued in 1942 (march). It is Tombac and identical to a "named" Brehmar
                  piece. I believe that this is but additional evidence of the legitamacy of this type of Brehmar badge.
                  This badge may be viewed with other Brehmar badges at:

                  http://flakbadges.homestead.com

                  mike pinkus

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Retracted by Prosper Keating

                    Except for the bit about the article in question being "directionless crap".



                    PK
                    Last edited by Prosper Keating; 07-15-2002, 04:29 PM.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Post removed by Eric

                      :o
                      Last edited by Eric Stahlhut; 07-15-2002, 11:18 AM.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Hey Frank;

                        On second thought, your eagles face isn't very well defined. Perhaps you should send it to me so I can have a better look at it.

                        Best regards,

                        Tony

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Hi,
                          I believe the full named buntmetal Brehmer Flakbadges to be good pieces,although the "latest" fake is a very good copy.
                          Look at the full named Brüder Schneider Wien Pilotsbadges also stamped with the BSW cloverleaf etc.
                          Same problem here,good full named fakes exist.
                          I can imagine people are upset about not getting a refund,that's no good,but I can't imagine people are upset about some article someone made with his opinions in it.
                          Books,magazines,films,internet...all opinions loaded with errors and thoughts.
                          We,people here have to share our knowledge and don't depend on what dealers say.
                          Very few dealers have the knowledge and don't care having the knowledge,"they try to put you on the wrong leg"as we say here.
                          Real collecting is very hard !
                          Not to name the militaria shows !!!
                          Here 80 % is scum,I mean the dealers,but collectors are funny people....they keep the faith.
                          Is it the adrenaline....,well,nuff said and done.
                          Stick with the information spread in the Wehrmacht-Awards and you'll have a nice collection at the end.

                          Jos.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            The first article has been pulled and replaced...check it out!
                            http://www.thirdreichmedals.com/alert.html
                            Visit my Badge Collection: http://lbmilitaria.homestead.com/home.html

                            Comment


                              #15
                              AUSGEZEICHNET!
                              WAF LIFE COACH

                              Comment

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