FLAK badge unidentified maker

[fdodge]

The fact that a badge was found buried in the ground is not in any way grounds for authentication.

Regards,
Frank

[Explorer]

Oh my... Didn't I just say that?! But in this case I'm absolutely sure it's original. I must repeat my first post - I am not questioning it's authenticity here. I'm just trying to figure out what this strange badge is all about! We are not talking big bucks here. The badge was found next to a forest path in a small town near the Austrian borderline together with a few other mostly Croatian Ustaša insignia and buckles. The axis forces were escaping to Bleiburg to surrender and throwing everything away. This exact course is well documented in at least one book and about the path I learned from a few locals living there. This path is actually quite remote (obscure) that most probably only a few people go through it each year. I am also pretty sure that this badge was thrown away in May 1945!

I must say only Thomas Durante has attributed to the topic so far and I'd like to hear more from him about that field-made option. Why would anyone do such a thing - wasn't this forbidden? I personally don't find this option so probable. To me it looks too well made even despite of the softness and lack of details as you mentioned.

I also want to figure out what is it made of. Like I said it has 14 g. A friend suggested it might be an AlMg? Is there any easy way to figure out weather this is zinc or aluminium without damaging the badge?

I will try to do some better photos/scans of the hinge and catch. I'd like to be sure if they were really replaced.

[fdodge]

So far Tom is the only one whose said what you (think you) want to hear.
I totally agree with what Tom said. I basically said the same thing in language you don't want to hear. The only part of Tom's opinion that gives you hope is

"With that said, its possible it was field-made....that would explain the weird reverse setup and soft detailing."

I will admit it could possibly be a field made piece. So instead of saying it's a fake like I did in post #12, I'll soften it up by saying it is not something that would have been produced during the war.
Where have I heard that before?
It is not an original badge. Maybe trench art or something, but it's not original (in my opinion).

I'd like to visit this known path where you found this badge and bury some of my fakes there. In a few years they'll show up here on the WAF and the guy that dug them up will swear they're real and I'll agree with him

[Explorer]

I'm not looking for any hope - I know the badge is real. Looks like by original you mean factory produced. I don't know about that, that's why I opened this thread in the first place to learn about the maker. A fellow collector of mine said what was said in this topic at the beginning - that it is a ball hinge type (I didn't even know about this term - I do not collect these) with a replaced system. I wanted to be sure if that is really so. Only yesterday I figured out this badge is quite lighter than the zinc types so I asked you new questions.

Please, be reasonable. This badge in this condition is not worth more than a couple of bucks. Why the hell would anyone bury in your opinion a complete bulls... reproduction badge easily distinguished from the originals??? A reproduction as a reproduction would be worth more. Not to mention the "assumed digger" left a bunch of original ww2 period ustasha and german stuff waiting for me.

I'm not trying to fool anyone or even sell it, it will stay with me and now that I know it's probably not factory produced it's even more special to me. I think this aspect adds value to it, it has a special story behind it.

So call it a fake if by fake you mean that it isn't factory produced but this badge is definitely period made and worn and that's what I call original. I bet if there was an archaeologist or any other expert of similar field he might date it by looking at the corrosion etc. I once had a grapeshot dated approximately just by expert looking at the pictures.

I'm aware of the danger you mentioned in your last sentence but with denying everything that's not textbook you are not giving a chance to potential original period items. After all, trench art did exist didn't it and it could be found?! And make no mistake, I'm pretty sure not every type of insignia is documented yet. I've seen original bodenfund "stamped" ustasha badges of unidentified makers way before the other evidence popped up and were approved by the experts. I bet the same was also happening with the TR field not many years ago.

[fdodge]

I understand where you're coming from, but this is a forum for Luftwaffe war and qualification badges. Look at the forum heading near the top of your screen.
And who knows why someone would bury that badge there. Makes no sense. Kinda like when I would build concrete block walls and toss my empty beer cans in the open cells of the block. I could have recycled the aluminum for cash, but tossed them in the wall anyway. Makes no sense, but there are walls all over Southern California with a bunch of beer cans and Camel cigarette butts inside.
Bottom line is if you're happy with the badge and you think it's real or whatever, then it's a done deal. We may be able to identify the type of material used with a measure of weight, but it aint gonna make it a real war time badge, which is what this forum is about.
Keep digging though. There are bound to be more badges if this route is what you say

[Tom Yanacek]

Hello,

I figured I would post some examples of the type of badge that yours appears to be patterned after. The following three badges are all original, zinc, mass-produced badges and yours is definitely not one of them. So if your badge is of the WW2 Period, it would have to be some sort of "trench art" homemade/field made sort of thing. It could very well be. I don't know. But I can say with certainty that it is not a factory-produced badge.

I think you are right on with it being made from aluminum. 14 grams is very light, so I can't see it being anything else. The three zinc examples I am posting weigh 31.2, 31.2, and 30.7 grams respectively. This same badge was also produced in Buntmetall, but forget those as they would be heavier still (around 40 grams).

These badges were produced by die-forging. Notice that all three of them have precise, trapezoidal shaped cutouts below the gun breech. These cutouts were part of the die-forging process, whereas yours has a round hole that obviously involved a separate drilling process. So field made is possible, but definitely not factory made.

Best regards,
Tom

example #1 31.2 grams

[Tom Yanacek]

example #2 31.2 grams

[Tom Yanacek]

example #3 30.7 grams