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    #76
    Hi guys,

    Another interesting twist with the elusive Assmann Glider today. Baldes had a marked Assmann badge on his update this morning, but this one in ZINC. Just one look at the obverse, and I think we can be sure we are looking at an original badge here. Very typical Assmann reverse hardware, with small barrel hinge, flat pancake rivets and thin flatwire catch on round plate. This is such a typical signature of Assmann zinc production IMO.

    A direct comparison of this zinc badge compared to the tombak ones seen previously in this thread from Manions and Hesketh show some differences in the eagle. The eagle faces are VERY similar in design, but slightly different and I think they were made with two different dies. Also notice the different size of the maker marks, which confirms that Assmann used two different eagle dies.

    The wreaths, however look identical to me. The pics aren't the best for comprisons, but as far as I can tell all the veins seem to line up on both badges. The reverse shapes of the wreaths are also identical, with a few significant landmarks pointed to in red.

    So is this more evidence of the existence of the Assmann Glider? Based on everything we know of Assmann production, I certainly think a good case can be made that these are indeed wartime products.

    I love days like this, makes our hobby very fun

    Tom
    Attached Files
    If it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a little

    New Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
    [/SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Available Now - tmdurante@gmail.com

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      #77
      Here are some compares with the Hesketh badge posted earlier in this thread.
      Attached Files
      If it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a little

      New Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
      [/SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
      Available Now - tmdurante@gmail.com

      Comment

        #78
        Here is the maker mark from the zinker. It looks to be twice as big as the one on the earlier, tombak examples. But its shape is exactly what I would expect to see on an Assmann badge. Also, this type of "flat-footed" maker mark is what Assmann used later in the war, so this also is a good sign IMO.

        Fire away guys

        Tom
        Attached Files
        If it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a little

        New Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
        [/SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
        Available Now - tmdurante@gmail.com

        Comment

          #79
          Zinker looks Assmann, chances are good ..

          Jos.

          Comment

            #80
            I see huge differences between the 2 eagles in the side-by-side shot made by Tom. No one else see that?

            Rich
            Interested in hand-stitched EM/NCO LW insignia and cuff-titles
            Decorations of Germany

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              #81
              Rich - it is parallax. Tom, great tat you stayed on top of this one like this. AWESOME in fact!

              Comment

                #82
                Thanks Tom! As I compared the 2 last evening I was amazed by the similarities between the 2 GP's. For me anyone, this is another step towards confirming that Assmann was at least a limited producer of the GP's.
                Since the 1st one popped up on Manion's (for me) I have been looking at any contempory photos or ?? I can find to try & find this beauty!
                I have an Assmann catalogue somewhere & will check, just in case

                Comment

                  #83
                  Nice work Tom, I really like these Assmann GB. It's weird why they put the eagle on a different axis on the Zinc compare to the Tomback one. Be nice to see more to compare if they have all that difference.
                  The German Luftwaffe Pilot and Combined Pilot and Observer Badges of WWII 1933-1945
                  Volume I & Volume II

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                    #84
                    Originally posted by Richard Gordon View Post
                    I see huge differences between the 2 eagles in the side-by-side shot made by Tom. No one else see that?

                    Rich
                    I agree, the eagles are totally different. There may also be a difference in th eobverse details of the wreath, specifically at the top of the wreath when comparing the shape and distance between the opposing oakleaves (mind you, the Baldes pic is not the best).

                    Regards
                    Mike
                    Regards
                    Mike

                    Evaluate the item, not the story and not the seller's reputation!

                    If you PM/contact me without the courtesy of using your first name, please don't be offended if I politely ignore you!

                    Comment

                      #85
                      Originally posted by Richard Gordon View Post
                      I see huge differences between the 2 eagles in the side-by-side shot made by Tom. No one else see that?

                      Rich
                      Hi Rich,

                      Could you please point out these differences that is due to the different angle?

                      KR

                      Karsten

                      "Try not to become a man of success but rather try to become a man of value."

                      Comment

                        #86
                        Hi guys,

                        Thanks for all the great replies.

                        There are definitely two different eagles. Even though the Baldes pics are not the best and give the difference in angle, you can still see that some of the feathering is different. Also notice that the talons seem thinner on the earlier, buntmetal piece but thicker on the later zinc example. So it would appear Assmann used two different eagle dies. This is confirmed by the different size of the Assmann mark on the back of the eagle.

                        This shouldn't be a surprise since we know that Assmann often changed up their designs if we look at some of their other LW badges. For instance, we know Assmann used ATLEAST 6 different wreaths for their LW Paratrooper badges. They also used two different eagles on their Observers and ROAGs. They also used AT LEAST 2 different eagles on their Pilot badges, and possibly even 3.

                        Tom
                        Attached Files
                        If it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a little

                        New Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
                        [/SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
                        Available Now - tmdurante@gmail.com

                        Comment

                          #87
                          Here are some Assmann ROAG compares as well.

                          So we can see Assmann often used 2 different eagle types. If we look at all their wreath types, we can see even more differences. I count no less than 6 distinct wreaths types used by Assmann on their Paratrooper badges. These same wreaths were also used on Assmann's Pilot and Observer badges, so we have strong evidence Assmann liked to mix things up a bit during their production timeline.

                          So I am not surprised to see two different eagle types on these Gliders. Given all their other LW badges, I would think it would be uncharacteristic of Assmann to used the same glider eagle design throughout the entire war, and is one of the reasons that speak in favor of these Assmann badges IMO.

                          Tom
                          Attached Files
                          If it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a little

                          New Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
                          [/SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
                          Available Now - tmdurante@gmail.com

                          Comment

                            #88
                            Originally posted by Thomas Durante View Post
                            Here are some Assmann ROAG compares as well.

                            So we can see Assmann often used 2 different eagle types. If we look at all their wreath types, we can see even more differences. I count no less than 6 distinct wreaths types used by Assmann on their Paratrooper badges. These same wreaths were also used on Assmann's Pilot and Observer badges, so we have strong evidence Assmann liked to mix things up a bit during their production timeline.

                            So I am not surprised to see two different eagle types on these Gliders. Given all their other LW badges, I would think it would be uncharacteristic of Assmann to used the same glider eagle design throughout the entire war, and is one of the reasons that speak in favor of these Assmann badges IMO.

                            Tom
                            Well it is possible but we are not talking about pilot badges and ro/ag badges that were produced in their thousands. Glider badges would have such a low volumn run that it doesn't seem to make sense to have had 2 eagles IMO. Of course, reality doesn't always follow sense.

                            Rich
                            Interested in hand-stitched EM/NCO LW insignia and cuff-titles
                            Decorations of Germany

                            Comment

                              #89
                              I would really like to compare the measurements between the tombak & zinc versions.

                              Comment

                                #90
                                I wonder if this Assmann's eagle match any of the other accepted firms' versions? It would seem more plausible IMO if it did as then we'd know they were using the same dies, and avoid the high cost/effort for a limited run.

                                Comment

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