Help with Luftwaffe Cloth Badges

[Tom Yanacek]

Hello to all,

I picked up a cloth Paratrooper Badge, Pilot Badge, and a Luftwaffe breast eagle at a gun show today. My experience with cloth items is very limited so I hope I didn't goof up here. The items seem to be ok to me but I really don't know for sure so I would appreciate any and all opinions.

Thank you and best regards,
Tom

Paratrooper Badge:

[Tom Yanacek]

Paratrooper reverse:

[Tom Yanacek]

Pilot Badge:

[Tom Yanacek]

Pilot Badge reverse:

[Tom Yanacek]

Luftwaffe breast eagle:

[Tom Yanacek]

breast eagle reverse:

[Gene]

I have never liked the chicken-looking pilot badge; for me it's postwar

[Thomas Durante]

Hi Tom,

Cloth badges have never been my specialty either, but I learned quite a bit about the cloth Para badges while I was writing the Paratrooper Badge Book. You cloth Para is a very nice original IMO, I show this as Type 7 in the book. I just love the eagle on this type, very fierce looking and these can also be found with more subdued wreaths, like the metal badges.

Not sure about the Pilot badge, nor the breast eagle, but I tend to agree with Gene. The design is similar to other cloth PBs, but your type has noticably thinner features than the ones I consider original. They just seem more clinical to me, and some can be found with the black threads on the reverse which is another signpost of fakes IMO.

Hope Leroy and some other cloth guys will chime in for you.

Tom

[Jos L C]

and some can be found with the black threads on the reverse which is another signpost of fakes IMO.

Hope Leroy and some other cloth guys will chime in for you.

Tom

I disagree on that ..

Many era specialist badges can be found with black, grey, blue, red and even yellow thread at the back.
Must confess that certain cloth items are extremely well faked, the difference will be as hard to detect as with metal badges, add up the fact that we don't have seen them all.
Cloth badges always were the price of a ice-cream few years ago, the fact that we made them special started the industry to produce more of these, the higher the price, the easier to produce.
The smart people they're them ..
I've bought many cloth flight badges in my life, for trading etc, never paid more than let's say 25 euro, look at them now ..
The balance is totally gone, good food for the eastern countries, watching us struggling with their new inventions, must be better than watching a football match.

Jos.

[Thomas Durante]

Many era specialist badges can be found with black, grey, blue, red and even yellow thread at the back.

Hi Jos,

Black thread is just a signpost, and in most cases it is found on reproductions in my opinion (case in point is these Sieder-marked fakes). I agree with you that black thread (and other colors) can be found on the originals, but these are the exceptions to the rule IMO. Like anything else in our hobby, you shouldn't just look at 1 thing and say its fake, there are usually several signposts that lead you to the conclusion that something is fake or not. In the case of Tom's cloth PB badge in question, the chicken-like eagle is a red flag in addition to the black thread. I am personally not 100% convinced its a fake, but there are at least 2 strikes against it IMO.

Tom

[Leroy]

For some reason, whether it's badges or eagles, there has always been more variety in LW cloth than in any other area. And this way before the massive cloth fakery began.

I also do not like the pilot, only because it seems too "fragile", nor do I particularly care for the para or the eagle; however, as Jos says, we are very far from having seen everything. I have cloth material directly from vets years ago that today no one would think is real. Conversely, I see things approved which surprise me. As to colors used, I have seen, in items I know to be real, virtually every one under the sun. The difference in texture and quality of base material between early war material and late war material can be astonishing.

Unless you can prove the source to be new, or there is some radical fault in design or material used, I believe it is almost impossible to make a valid call on very many items of LW (or any other) cloth today. I can certainly not do it with these particular pieces from photos alone.

[Jos L C]

As you will know, Thomas, there're 2 things, fantasy items and things copied from originals ..
If copied from originals, they ( try to ) copy everything ..
What I mean to say is that certain things did exist, even chicken like eagles etc..
Other colors thread are no exeption to the rule, just study the specialist badges, which are still cheap, thank God.., but like all stuff some of them suddenly got rare and asking price became insane.
When studying cloth, these are very interesting, backing material, all kinds of thread, weaving technique etc.

The art is to find the original, a era pic and the copy, then start to compare and maybe there's a verdict.
I've seen cloth RO/AG's really close, at sometimes over $ 100.- a piece instead of making T-shirts at $ 3,- it's quite tempting to change your plans.

Jos.

[Gary B]

Hi Tom Y,

For me the para is good, the Pilot a "maybe" and the breast eagle is fine.

As has been discussed above - cloth is very difficult to make a determination on since there were many vairations in this cottage industry.

Gary B

[Tom Yanacek]

Thank you!

In the case of Tom's cloth PB badge in question, the chicken-like eagle is a red flag in addition to the black thread. I am personally not 100% convinced its a fake, but there are at least 2 strikes against it IMO.

Tom

Thanks to everyone for sharing your opinions about these three items. I really appreciate all the information. It seems like still we have a long way to go in learning about cloth insignia.

Tom D:

I am a bit confused about your posting highlighted above. The Pilot Badge I posted has absolutely no black or charcoal gray thread on it. I don't know if the picture is making it appear different to you but, in hand, it is all light gray thread on this example.

Best regards,
Tom

[fdodge]

The art is to find the original, a era pic and the copy, then start to compare and maybe there's a verdict.
I've seen cloth RO/AG's really close, at sometimes over $ 100.- a piece instead of making T-shirts at $ 3,- it's quite tempting to change your plans.

Jos.

That is a solid forensic line of thought there Jos
I personally am not in love with the pilot myself but I don't see red either....
The breast eagle is an ugly one but wartime original IMO.
The para is very nice and textbook according to the "bible". Very nice detail and as Tom says, a great looking bird
I've been looking at lots of cloth the last couple of years due to the high prices of metal awards.

Frank