Juncker L/W Flak Badge opinions please

[Tom Yanacek]

Hello to all,
I have owned this Luftwaffe Flak Badge by Juncker for quite some time now. I am almost certain that the badge is genuine, but the surface of the reverse has a pitted or rough texture look to it in places. The badge looks to have a tombak base, both eagle and wreath. Shear marks and/or hand filing marks are very evident on the badge. Does anyone have an opinion on this badge? Any idea why the rough texture look to the reverse?
Best regards! Tom Yanacek

[Tom Yanacek]

the reverse...

[Tom Yanacek]

a view of the catch...

[Tom Yanacek]

view of pin, hinge, and catch...

[Tom Yanacek]

from the other side...

[Tom Yanacek]

the maker mark 'C.E.JUNCKER BERLIN SW'

[Tim B.]

Pitted from corrosion?

Tom,

Your badge is fine IMO and has all the correct traits for a earlier made buntmetal piece from this maker. The reverse does appear to be a bit more "pitted" than others I remember seeing, but perhaps it was stored in a way that the back aged faster?

Other than that, I think it's a nice looking badge.

Here's a close-up of one of mine (a little later buntmetal without the breechblock rivets) and you can see the reverse also shows some typical age marks.
Tim

[Philippe DB]

Hi Tom,


Textbook second pattern eagle and second pattern wreath (with rivets on the gun). These are later tombak Juncker Flak's which also explains the rough reverse that is commonly encountered on these later badges.

Although a lot of picture sadly have disappeared you might want to take a look at this thread to learn more about the production evolution of the Juncker Flak badge

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ad.php?t=32198

KR
Philippe

[Frank Heukemes]

Dear Tom,

I agree with Philippe that this pitting is often encountered on Tombak Juncker Flak badges. It is not due to aging, it is in the production process.

[Tim B.]

Tom,

Sorry, I had forgot about that previous thread and remember that several had concluded that the badges with the rivets came later in the buntmetal manufacture--thanks Philippe!

Frank mentions that the pitting is in the process, though I don't remember seeing one this noticable before, perhaps it's just your photos are more detailed. Either way, nice original badge.
Tim

[Tom Yanacek]

Tom,

Sorry, I had forgot about that previous thread and remember that several had concluded that the badges with the rivets came later in the buntmetal manufacture--thanks Philippe!

Frank mentions that the pitting is in the process, though I don't remember seeing one this noticable before, perhaps it's just your photos are more detailed. Either way, nice original badge.
Tim

Hello Tim,
Thanks for clearing that up. The picture you posted led me to believe that yours was the earlier quality award by virtue of the better reverse finish. It all makes sense now. Best regards! Tom yanacek

[Tom Yanacek]

Hello to all,

Thanks for responding guys, and for confirming my belief that this is an original badge despite the not so perfect looking reverse. Frank, any idea why this is a result of the manufacturing and not due to age? Maybe too many impurities in the tombak alloy when smelted?
Best regards! Tom Yanacek

[Philippe DB]

Hi Tom,


Here are some of the explanations I got for this uneven reverse,

1. Like you mentioned impurities in the tombak, or declining quality of the material
2. Dirty or improper maintained reverse die with would lead to the above mentioned impurities
3. Reverse die not fully heated
4.A combination of all the above mentioned.

KR
Philippe

[Tom Yanacek]

Thanks Philippe!

Not only are you the of Panzer Badges, you are also the of badge information in general.
Best regards! Tom Yanacek

[Mike Kenny]

Hi,

Re the pitting, I have different thoughts to those above. These early Juncker Flak Badges commonly show this type of pitting, although not normally to this degree. My nickel-silver (neusilber, ie early) example shows minor effects. Juncker LW Para Badge wreaths and Glider Pilot's Badge wreaths (tombak and nickel-silver) show the same effect. Personally I have the suspicion that these badges/wreaths were die cast, not die struck using a heated blank. The "pitting" (commonly more of a crystalline pattern imo, but I'll run with the "pitting" term) evident on the reverse of the items I've mentioned indicates a slower cooling process, something you don't normally see on obviously die-struck badges (eg Heer, KM badges, other Juncker LW badges and LW badges from other makers). I have not seen a DEFINITE shear mark on any of the badges/wreaths I've mentioned, although I admit I haven't handled dozens of each example and Juncker hand finishing comes into it as well.

If the badges/wreaths are die struck then I could accept a "superheated" blank (ie to a near liquid, but how do you transfer it to the dies in that state?) or a slightly different, but still high quality, basemetal alloy composition (not impurities or poorer quality basemetal) as leading to the observed "pitting".

The "pitting" effect is common but not the same from badge to badge, so it's not something in the reverse of the die, and poor die maintenance of this magnitude would be highly negligent - you don't see that from Juncker with other types of badges. I've never heard of the dies themselves being heated before (obviously heat would be generated by a die-strike process, but pre-heating?), so I'll be interested to hear from those with tool and die / engineering backgrounds on this point.

Regards
Mike K