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    #31
    Thomas, here're 2 different GWL observers from that site, notice something ?


    Jos.
    Attached Files

    Comment

      #32
      With an original "in hand" to compare to, there's just no way I believe the badge that started this thread is original. Dangerously close, but not for me.
      Ignored Due To Invisibility.

      Comment

        #33
        The two that Jos posted are twins to each other, if you look at details within the maker mark circle, the overall grainy reverse of the eagle I would say both are bad and produced through casting with the maker mark being cast in as well--it is less obvious on the wreath but a heavy gunk/paint is added and that obscurses the grainy details

        Comment

          #34
          Hi Jos,

          I see the marks you are talking about, but these can be found sometimes on original GWLs. Here are just two from my files with similar marks, one from Lorenzo's collection and the other from Frank Heukemes.

          Also, if you look at both Observer badges from Staegmeir's site, the eagles are NOT the same. There is different sets of dings and marks, so if they were cast fakes, they definately did not come out of the same fake die in my opinion.

          Tom
          Attached Files
          If it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a little

          New Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
          [/SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
          Available Now - tmdurante@gmail.com

          Comment

            #35
            Originally posted by John T View Post
            The two that Jos posted are twins to each other, if you look at details within the maker mark circle, the overall grainy reverse of the eagle I would say both are bad and produced through casting with the maker mark being cast in as well--it is less obvious on the wreath but a heavy gunk/paint is added and that obscurse the grainy details
            Exactly ..


            Jos.
            Attached Files

            Comment

              #36
              Look at the ghost circle right to the below of the maker mark and how it is so obvious on both pieces, and the line to the right of the "G" on both pieces.

              Comment

                #37
                Hi guys,

                Originals have these chips in the wing, and line in the G as well. Here is a closeup of the maker mark of Lorenzo's original I posted earlier, note the exact same line in the G.

                Tom
                Attached Files
                If it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a little

                New Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
                [/SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
                Available Now - tmdurante@gmail.com

                Comment

                  #38
                  Originally posted by John T View Post
                  The two that Jos posted are twins to each other, if you look at details within the maker mark circle, the overall grainy reverse of the eagle I would say both are bad and produced through casting with the maker mark being cast in as well--it is less obvious on the wreath but a heavy gunk/paint is added and that obscurses the grainy details
                  Hi John,

                  I don't think they are exactly the same. Based on my experience with Staegemeir, his fakes will pick up a lot of the same small details, but they also pick up the same nicks, dings and bubbles too. If you look at the two on his site, the eagles do NOT have the same die characteristics we are used to seeing with all of his other fakes. Here are the two badges in question, next to eachother. They are similar, but not exactly the same IMO. Clearly there are some differences to be seen.

                  Compare this to 2 of his fake Airgunner badges he sells (below). You can see the EXACT SAME bubbling on all his Airgunner fakes. We just don't see these on the Observers in question and that is why I think they may be originals. Also look at the rivets and hardware on these Observers, they are classic GWL production. Staegemeir has never even gotten close to getting these aspects right, but yet all of a sudden he gets it 100% right on these GWL observerse?? I don't buy it......

                  Tom
                  Attached Files
                  If it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a little

                  New Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
                  [/SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
                  Available Now - tmdurante@gmail.com

                  Comment

                    #39
                    So, he sells good GWL observers all the time and bad GWL AG's ?

                    You've great trust .., to me the 4 you show are all from one maker..

                    Still not for me, milky paint like finish, no polishing inside the wreath and all that ..

                    Jos.

                    Comment

                      #40
                      Originally posted by Jos Le Conté View Post
                      So, he sells good GWL observers all the time and bad GWL AG's ?

                      You've great trust .., to me the 4 you show are all from one maker..
                      Hi Jos,

                      Well like I said, we have only found 2 GWL observers on his site. They are different from eachother and we cannot find any other ones that show the EXACT SAME casting characteristics that prove they are all fakes. Compare this to the AG badges that I showed above, I have 5 of these on file, all fakes and all show the exact same casting flaws and details.

                      Its not a matter of trusting Staegemeir. I would love to prove that the Observers has on his site are fakes, but I just personally don't see enough evidence that they are fakes. If a few more pop up that all show the same charactersitics, then I will have to reconsider my position. But until then, I think we should continue to keep these in the "questionable" pile.

                      Tom
                      If it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a little

                      New Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
                      [/SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
                      Available Now - tmdurante@gmail.com

                      Comment

                        #41
                        Hello,

                        Hence the main proble with Staegemeier - the fakes become real and the real become fakes...
                        as pointed out by Marc Garlasco........ this is very frightening and is something that can spoil the fun on the hobby!!!

                        Regards
                        Martin

                        Comment

                          #42
                          in this older thread with a very bad Assmann
                          the same GWL badge love all

                          http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...t=gwl+observer

                          now, this badge split the collector's

                          but comes it from Staegemaier site, i wouldn't buy never in my live
                          Last edited by ChrisH; 01-03-2011, 06:38 AM.

                          Comment

                            #43
                            Hi Chris,

                            Thanks for the link, that is the EXACT SAME badge again! Notice all the same marks and dings in the finish, so this observer sure has gotten around. There were no negative comments in that thread, and very experienced LW collectors such as Mike Kenny and Tim Calvert gave it a thumbs up.....

                            Tom
                            If it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a little

                            New Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
                            [/SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
                            Available Now - tmdurante@gmail.com

                            Comment

                              #44
                              HI Tom-

                              In the old thread the details to the back were not as clear as in this thread as the photos here are better. I am on the fence on the two badges in this thread because of the striking similarity in details and remain open minded.

                              John

                              Comment

                                #45
                                I also gave a thumbs up on the previous thread for this badge, but after saw it many times pop up from different sites and seeing clearer pictures from the reverse I'm not fan of this badge anymore.
                                Anyway its also in the GCA fake database.

                                Comment

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