Luft Panzer Badge

[WARLORD]

The fact of the badge being worn is some thing that can not be seen even to-day. The 20 July badge in wear is a very hard one to find. Untill I found the BFC phootos it was thought that the badges did not exist. PHOTOS NEED A CAMERS AND IN THE CASE OF BRITISH TROOPS THIS WAS FORBIDDEN. AS THE WAR WENT ON IT WAS VERY DIFFICULT FOR GERMAN TROOPS TO USE FILM ALTHOUGH THEY WERE ALOWED TO TAKE CAMERAS INTO COMBAT AREAS. As to the late introduction of badges, the orders were produced in advance of the publication of the order. This gave time for firms to put award designs into production, although this might be in limmited numbers. Steinhaurer and Luck have confirmed this with me, that when designs were approved, they were then enabled to produce sample awards. When they had made the die they ran the "run" for a while producing a number Of badges. This gave them the oppertunity to see if the die stood up to the use or did it break. What quality was the out put. The Royal Mint to-day uses the same principle to test a die. Thus many pieces are produced. The need to give regulation to uniform can be shown in a group I have were in April 1945 documents are raised to provide new uniform for a Police General. Why in the caose of April 1945 Berlin would you fill in specifice forms for the issue of uniform. The Balloon Badge, destined to be produced in Dresden, town bombed, but the latest book on the subject states that the industrial and small inustry areas were not affected as were the SS Barracks. Shortages of the right bagde for the occasion offten ment that another ward was rendered in its place. CLASSICAL illistration of this is were Possel was at the award cerromony of the Knights cross and there was a shortage, so he gave his award to the commanding officer and it was reawarded. He subsequently was killed and the award was returned latter to Possells widow. All is food for thought.

[Gene]

Aside from the lack of photos, remember that there are people here (myself included) who have spoken with former members of the Hermann Goering Division who say they not only have never seen these badges but believe they were never awarded.

[Joseph D'Errico]

Hmmmmmmmm.........maybe never awarded, but produced to be awarded.

Faked , yes , of course, but probably less than most. These types of pieces have not yet found their difinitive place, so for now we accept them for what we know. But, I would not go so far as to say they did not exist or were not produced. At the late stage of the war, sometimes you recieved your award in a timly fashion, or sometime down the road after the war. I really can't wait to see some high quality pics of the piece.

Really wish I could hold this example in hand and study the finish as well as metal composite and construction.



best,
JD

[Don D.]

food for thought

Hmmmmmmmm.........maybe never awarded, but produced to be awarded.

Faked , yes , of course, but probably less than most. These types of pieces have not yet found their difinitive place, so for now we accept them for what we know. But, I would not go so far as to say they did not exist or were not produced. At the late stage of the war, sometimes you recieved your award in a timly fashion, or sometime down the road after the war. I really can't wait to see some high quality pics of the piece.

Really wish I could hold this example in hand and study the finish as well as metal composite and construction.



best,
JD

Exactly. They may have had truckloads of them ready to be delivered. I suppose if you start weeding out the obvious fakes you could narrow it down to a couple of examples that have charactoristics of period constructed pieces and go from there. It would help if we knew of an authorized manufacturer. Since it would have been a somewhat limitted award I doubt that contracts would have been awarded to more than a few companies- perhaps one of the more prolific Luftwaffe award maker. You could then compare samples against late war badges by those manufacturers and look for simularities.
Don

[DaveJ]

Here are a couple better photos although I admit they are still not the best. This badge compairs exactly to the ground asaults I have had. When I hold this badge I must admit I do like it.

Perhaps they were , or were not issued, I do not know,

[DaveJ]

Here is the tank

[DaveJ]

All I can say is that Niemann was quite impresse3d with this badge , and asked to put it in his book,

[Richard]

The set from the vet that had the soldbuch entry of this badge had received the normal panzer badge and the recipient had stated that was what he was presented. Why would a badge that is produced and had examples available not be given out if there were those that were eligible recipients? Why would they give out a substitute badge originally designed for another branch of the service instead?
Richard V

[Joseph D'Errico]

The Germans were most likley having distribution problems that late in the game.


Like P-51 Mustangs and P-47 tank busters,B-25 Mitchells ect.

Best,
JD

[Ludwig]

rare awards

A friend of mine has interviewed about 100 ex K-men (small battle arms of the navy).
8 of them got the Sawfish cloth badge during the war.
3 of them still had their badge as my friend visited them.
He got 2 badges.
No one had a photo showing the sawfish being worn.
The most famous K-man – Ritterkreuzträger Gerhold – was never awarded a Sawfish badge.

Another friend of mine served in a SS-Recce unit.
He didn´t know what Waffenfarbe he wore during the war.

Some years ago I visited a former Kingtiger commander (SS).
He showed me the fan-mail he had gotten and a photo of a Kingtiger from an American collector. "But that´s not a Tiger" he said. But it WAS a Tiger.

Funny, isn´t it?

[WARLORD]

Ludwig, hs made a very good point that I have also found. This not only with German soldiers. My fathers gardener had been agunner in the First World War and had been at the front just 3 miles from one of the most furrousous battles. His recollection was that it was a sunny day with the birds singing, as to the battle he had no recollection at all.