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    #1

    LW Flak - Buntmetal or Nickel Silver?

    Hi guys,

    Just bought this off a fellow forum member. It's a beautiful piece in my opinion but I wonder if you can clear something up for me. I've seen this same badge advertised as Buntmetal and also as Nickel-Silver. Which is it and how do you tell the difference?

    Thanks
    John
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    #2
    The back

    .
    Attached Files

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      #3
      Hi John,


      Congratulations this must be one of the best luftflaks of this type I have ever had the pleasure of seeing.

      Nickel silver or neusilber is a buntmetall just like Tombak (messing) is a buntmetall also . The way we use these terms leads to some confusion because most of the time buntmetall is just used to underline that it's not zinc (to add to the confusion even zinc could be cataloged as a buntmetall if 'm not mistaken)

      KR
      Philippe

      PS: in relation to Buntmetall take a look at posts 69 and 70 in this thread

      http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...t=44442&page=5
      Last edited by Philippe DB; 02-27-2004, 02:51 AM.

      Comment

        #4
        Hi John. I hve the same badge and it is one of the nicest Luft Flak badges. The badge is somewhat of a mystery to me because it is a highquality buntmetal WITH cast-in crimps for the hinge and catch!! This goes against what I would normally expect for a buntmetal piece.

        What is interesting is that I have the exact badge in Zinc, and from the reverse pattern they both appear to have been cast from the same dies!. The buntmetal badges weighs 41 grams and the zinc piece weighs 31.5 grams.

        Also, the buntmetal piece IMO is neither tombak nor nickel silver, but rather a high quality material that has a bright silver, chrome-like finish that is dark in the recesses.


        PS...and coincidently, as we speak, Detlev has just listed one on his site that he describes as "tombak". Still....I'm not so sure.
        Last edited by Lorenzo Brown; 02-27-2004, 08:47 AM.
        Visit my Badge Collection: http://lbmilitaria.homestead.com/home.html

        Comment

          #5
          John
          imo this is nickel silver "plated" tombac....
          i also (like Lorenzo) have this badge in zinc as well as tombac, and solid silver. on my web site i have pics of these three different types.
          it is apparent that this maker was very prlific in making this style badge.
          it has generally been assumed that these were Juncker manufacture but no one(to my knowledge) has locked this down 100% yet.
          mike
          http://flakbadges.homestead.com

          Comment

            #6
            Dear Mike,

            Juncker??? First time I hear that. For me it is more obvious that Adolf Scholze might have made these (hinge and catch).
            Cheers, Frank

            Comment

              #7
              Based on almost identical setups on S Boat, Minesweeper, and Panzer badges, I would have guessed A.D. Schwerdt.
              Ignored Due To Invisibility.

              Comment

                #8
                Hi Guys,


                This is getting a little complicated. I also would agree that Juncker is most unlikely for the simple reason that I can't imagin why they would have produced 2 completely different badges througout the war one marked and one unmarked. Besides that I don't think we know a marked Juncker that features a ball hinge.

                And than we have to deside what the maker mark for A.Scholze and A.D Schwerdt were. Seems to be a lot of confusion in that area too. Are A.S and AS in a triangle one and the same maker. The more I study the PAB's with these mm the more I'm getting convinced that they were made buy different makers. There are just to many different grass patterns to be found in these PAB's, and I just cant believe that one and the same makers had to change obverse and reverse dies that often.

                So at the moment I really don't have a clue which mark represents which maker. Taken in to account that the AS in triangle mark is found on a lot of different badges why would that maker all of a sudden have decided not to use a mm on his Luftflak?

                KR
                Philippe

                Comment

                  #9
                  Frank
                  I thought this was discussed before...my understanding is the maker was decided as Juncker...AS makes sense to me as well, though there is another variation of that maker....has any definitive proof been shown for AS?, or just another supposition?
                  mike

                  Dear Mike,

                  Juncker??? First time I hear that. For me it is more obvious that Adolf Scholze might have made these (hinge and catch).[/QUOTE]

                  Comment

                    #10
                    These have the same construction characteristics as the AS in a triangle. It is that maker.

                    Ed

                    Comment

                      #11
                      That would be my assumption as well. But there is no proof.
                      Cheers, Frank

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Hi John,

                        nice conditions it has.

                        This is the original badge owned from my father in law, same badge but......a little more worn !

                        He founds it few years later the end of war in the point he buryed its uniform, soldbuch and medals, when he went back by foot from Hamburg to Hannover, after the capitulation, he was captain of Flak. This badge is not a nice one but I love it.
                        Attached Files

                        Ivan Bombardieri

                        Comment

                          #13
                          rv
                          Attached Files

                          Ivan Bombardieri

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Guys, just a quick clarification on maker's marks. In the back of Tucker's book the AS in a triangle is defined as A.D. Schwerdt. That's what I based my comment on. Is it actually Adolf Scholze or is it unknown?
                            Ignored Due To Invisibility.

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Here is another example of a statement being made in a book, and then repeated by individuals. Coming from a book that shows well-known reproductions as genuine exmaples, this statement should be examined cautiously, because this maker was known as Adolf Scholze before this book was published.

                              Yuri

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