Aluminum Assmann Pilot

[Joseph D'Errico]

Here are the pics of the reverse, not that great, have to re-shoot them.



Best,
JD

[Frank Heukemes]

I think the badge Joe shows confuses this thread as it is:

-a different badge
-with a similar to Assman eagle, but Meybauer wreath
-very likely not an Assmann badge

[Brian S]

But, not to digress to many miles away, it does look like an Assmann eagle.

[Frank Heukemes]

Sigh, yes it does. But you will not find the solution to your Assmann Alu pilot question in it.

[Brian S]

You're right, and now it will be months before I see it again, also sigh... But I will get him to weigh it for me so I can compare to my BM A Pilot.

[Joseph D'Errico]

Hello Gentlemen,

@ Frank , I posted this example to demonstrate the metal composites, guess I should have said that.

- If that is not an Assman eagle then what maker would you suggest it represents?

- Agreed on the wreath, P Meybauer

- The example I posted is all aluminum as well as Neils, point is that the look is different of the metal as well as the hardware.

Best,
JD

[Neil Howes]

Hello Gentlemen,

From the pictures I agree with Frank's diagnosis, it certainly looks to be a tombac wreath, also it looks like the hinge has been soldered on, not something you would see on an aluminium piece. I have seen a few like this, including one without the A on the wreath. All seem to have this wreath. Weight is the key, there are very light badges (I presume due to the aluminium eagle, that this would appear so?) & then there are aluminum badges!!! So light, you could dismiss then as fake plastic!!

Thanks Frank for posting my pic, although of course a 1st Patt.

I was thinking about putting together a list of Assmann Pilots & Obs types together.

Regards,

Neil

[skip]

Frank is 100% correct. I had exactly the same badge that Brian is showing. IT really was very light, but not as light as the full aluminum version. The eagle is aluminum, the wreath is very thin "Buntmetal"

Skip

[Joseph D'Errico]

Hello Gentlemen,

One cocern was price point, I would say that these piece with an Aluminum eagle are not considered rare as a result of mixed componets and seem them often enough to say that the price point would be the same or less than a pure buntmedal piece of the same condition.

Best,
JD

[Frank Heukemes]

Dear Joe,

About the Observer you are showing:

-it is an Assmannn style eagle (and a Meybauer wreath) but that does not mean it has to be either an Assmann or Meybauer badge. (see JMME or Deumer)

-I heard (mind you, rumours only!) from other people who own that exact same full Alu Observer (Detlev also sold one exactly like that) that it is an AGMuK badge.

[Joseph D'Errico]

Dear Frank,

I can agree with that logic, but please explain the AGMuK reply.What I mean is were all these different componets just assembeled by AGMuK from different makers with no MM. Also why no MM ?

Just asking for clarification, so it is being suggested that this is an Assman style Eagle, but not an Assman eagle made by Assman, but rather made by AGMuK ?

Best,
JD

[J Temple-West]

Agree with the Buntmetal wreath/Alu Bird diagnosis.. I've only ever seen full Alu pieces with 1st pat wreath/bird, as per the one owned by Neil and the one below..

[Brian S]

Thanks guys. The explanations are complete. Had it felt ridiculously light, which it did not, then it would be alu. And John, thanks for that final photo of the all alu. model.

Brian

[Frank Heukemes]

Dear Joe,

As I said, it is just rumours about AGMuK having produced that badge. I never found somebody who could give me a solid explanation for that. Take it as German collecting circles lore without any proof. It is nothing more than that fo now.

Here is the one that Detlev once sold, same type as the one you have now.

[Joseph D'Errico]

Hello Frank,

Well, thanks for the response , I wish their was a more concise explanation. To tell you the truth with all that has surfaced in the way of fakes as of late I am really concerned about these types of pieces with no solid background.

I understand that their are going to be things we have yet to dicover. but one thing that seems to gaining momentum is many things thought to be original are bogus.

The floch thread, the George Peterson incident , B&NL Observer, Flawed S&L RK, Heer Para badge. Heck if the German dealers don't know with many of these vets still around as well as factory workers, add to that the reference books that we once held as a bench mark are also being said to have been incorrect as new material is updated. I am very frustrated as well as many collectors.

I mean who is deciding what is real and what is not The set in stone foundations have been rocked and the push continues, not good for the hobby. Thank goodness we have this forum, but even so, how does one find the conclusive end.

Example if you please; We take 10 of the best well known and respected dealers/collectors in a room and place a "75 " PAB on the table they all establish what a "75" PAB original is, so is this now become the excepted standard of the "75" PAB?

Just some thoughts here.

Best,
Joe