Open question on glider pilots badges

[Stijn David]

Glider pilot badges

Hello,


Thank you towards the ones who responded => well it seems that most collectors go towards their feelings in judging the badges.

Yuri raises a very interesting point => the rarity of the badge in period pictures (they certainly do exist => check therefore the following little article here on our beloved association: http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/war_...der_badge1.htm )

Please perform a search on the forum with the key word " Glider pilot " etc ... and there will turn up a few more images but not that many !!!!!!!

you can see a metal badge in wear + a cloth version, does it not make anyone wonder iff pictures from such badges in wear are so hard to find. Take with it that the award document for these badges are even more impossible to find ( both the size A 4 and A 5 award documents) etc ... and i am pretty sure that it does not take a superbrain to wonder why there are floating around so many " original ? " badges while all the rest is almost never seen.

For example:

*when was the last time you did see a Glider grouping turn up a dealers website or a auctionhouse ? (and with a grouping i mean the award document, a few pictures of the pilot in question, etc .... )

how does it come that some of the badges we see are almost always in new condition and never seem to have the normal traces of wear => such as a broken catch, repaired catch, etc .... ???

Just a few observations from my side => keep the info comming as it is always interesting to hear what you do use as standard.

Cordial greetings,

[Ian Tannahill]

Giday everyone,

In addition to what Stijn has said, I would like to share with you the following observation.

Many of the photographs that I have seen of glider pilots show them wearing the cloth version of the Glider Pilots Badge. These too are very rare badges.

Further, in the last five years I have seen only two original examples of the cloth version of the Glider Pilots Badge for sale. One was listed in a dealer's online catalogue, while the other was offered to me by a close friend. Unfortunately, on both occasions I did not have the money to buy them.

I consider the metal version of the Glider Pilots Badge to be almost as rare as the cloth version yet, while most dealers have at least one example of the metal version on their list, one almost never sees a cloth version of the badge for sale.

From the above I draw two conclusions.

Firstly, that more than likely the vast majority of the metal versions of the Glider Pilots Badge offered for sale by dealers are reproductions.

Secondly, there are many collectors of Luftwaffe war and qualifcation badges who seek at least one metal version of the Glider Pilots Badge in order to complete their collection. I also suspect that very few collectors chose to collect cloth examples of the qualification badges, except those whose interests are broader than just the badges themselves, (ie. collectors such as Gene or Francois perhaps). Accordingly, because there is less demand for the cloth version of the Glider Pilots Badge, this badge I believe has not been as heavily reproduced as others.

All the best,

Ian

[Stijn David]

Open question on glider pilot badges

Hello,


I agree totally with Ian's observations.

In order about the cloth badges => the glider pilots did wear them as for the most obvious reason (not to be limited in their small cockpit). The very interesting thing is that they did wear the cloth badges and yet iff there do somes out a nice and original glider pilots badge it is in many cases damaged on the c-catch !!!

The main reason these cloth badges do not pop up frequently are because they had to be bought (they where not awarded !!!!) and the cloth badges are of the nature that they do suffer more as there metal counterparts when they are exposed to extensive wear.

I do make difference between 3 types of cloth badges => and these can be devided once more !!!

1) * Cloth badge on LW-blue cloth ( and subdevided: the ones on tropical brown cloth ), see the type as attached in this thread from my personal collection

2) * the hand embroyed badges ( never had the pleasure to handle one )

3) * the third type wich has never surfaced in the flesh so far (most probably a private purchase piece ) => mystery oh mysterie !!!!!!!!!!

The presented cloth badge is wich i referr to as the normal type (on LW blue cloth)

Cordial greetings,

[Stijn David]

Open question on Glider pilots badges

Hello,


Here is a close up from a picture out of my collection => it shows clearely the very same badge as shown in the above picture !!!!!!!!!


Cordial greetings,

[Stijn David]

Open question on Glider pilots badges

Hello,


And here is a stunning badge that recently came into my possesion => it is a maker marked Buntmetall Juncker maker marked piece. (for more information about the complete grouping : http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ad.php?t=37906 )

The unmarked Juncker badge that is shown on the wehrmacht-awards article is a perfect match in regards to characteristics as this one, and that is the way a Juncker Glider pilots badge should look like !!!


Cordial greetings,

[Stijn David]

Open question about Glider pilots badges

Hello,


Here is a close up from a period photograph from the same estate as the Juncker badge pictured above => it shows in a perfect way the (or a ) Juncker badge in wear , etc ....


Cordial greetings,

[Yuri D.]

The Swastika looks filled in on the above badge being worn.

Yuri

Hello,


Here is a close up from a period photograph from the same estate as the Juncker badge pictured above => it shows in a perfect way the (or a ) Juncker badge in wear , etc ....


Cordial greetings,

[Frank Heukemes]

Dear Stijn,

Like many collectors I am looking for a Juncker glider pilot badge for my collection. I have not bought one yet, so do not have a horse in this race.

But I am beginning to wonder what this thread should be all about? We all respect your opinion Stijn, especially when it comes to glider related things, but do I correctly read between the lines that what you say is something like unless you get a glider badge directly from the recipient (which you have been sucessfully doing in more than one case), you can never quite be sure about the originality? Even if it looks, smells and feels like an original?

Wouldn´t that be a bit snobbish and a hit into the face of all the collectors with glider badges in their collections bought from dealers, but checked by these collectors with utmost scrutiny? If that is what you say, I would like you to show us glider badges which YOU think are fakes and everybody thinks are ok.

[Stijn David]

Open question

Hello,


Indeed it looks that way but that is just the angle from the badge onto the uniform => as this badge is the actual presented Glider pilots badge in wear !!!

A way for us researchers and hobbyists alike is to search for the period photo material with the Glider pilots badges in wear => the clue on wich things did exist is there but offcoarse you must find these pictures first and then again the picture must be needlesharp to say it is such or such a type of badge in wear !!

Cordial greetings,

[Stijn David]

Glider badges

Hello,


Frank => I never did say or did write between the lines the thing you say or suggest and please let me give you a answer towards the following comment

" But I am beginning to wonder what this thread should be all about? We all respect your opinion Stijn, especially when it comes to glider related things, but do I correctly read between the lines that what you say is something like unless you get a glider badge directly from the recipient (which you have been sucessfully doing in more than one case), you can never quite be sure about the originality? Even if it looks, smells and feels like an original?

Wouldn´t that be a bit snobbish and a hit into the face of all the collectors with glider badges in their collections bought from dealers, but checked by these collectors with utmost scrutiny? If that is what you say, I would like you to show us glider badges which YOU think are fakes and everybody thinks are ok." <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->


It is not because badges come from veterans they are original => i have seen a few original pieces still in the hands of the vet. who once earned it but i have seen also other badges that where certainly a nono !!!! and in the hands of a vet. There are members here on the forum who have obtained badges from other persons who where not the wearer and yet there badges are original !!!!!

The same go's for dealers => it is not because dealers sell badges as original they are original, etc ...

In regards to the Juncker produced badges : I just want to make clear that there is a lot of confusion about these badges and it is my opinion that iff a Juncker produced badge does not look exactly as the unmarked type as presented here on the website (see the article) or the one in this thread you might have a problem.

I can point you guys in the direction of a original one that is offered on a dealers website (and yes it is the type as presented here but do not expect it to be cheap !!!! ), simply PM me. The badge i am referring to is offered already for quite a while and i certainly do not understand why nobody did snatch it up yet?

For me it is obvious that the majority of the Glider pilot badges that are offered are not original, is it normal that for example most of the dealers offer them on a regulary base and nobody even questions these ????

Taking into account the rarity of these badges and lets even say that there where a few producers (and there where) who did make them => is it normal that badges produced in a small quantity have different characteristics ?????

For me this thread is all about learning and i just want to make you guys aware of the minefield that is out there with these badges.

I also do not have anything in the fire as to regards wich badges persons do believe are original => i am making my opinion on experiences, pieces i have seen, pieces in books and following the market for years on these and i can only concurr wath Ian mentioned previously: " Firstly, that more than likely the vast majority of the metal versions of the Glider Pilots Badge offered for sale by dealers are reproductions. "

Is there a way to proove this => nope and I will not even try so also, for me there is a goal reached when persons think twice before buying !!!!!!!!

Cordial greetings,