FLL para - rare hardware

[Lubo]

Hello all, this is an FLL para badge that just sold on the estand (hopefully the owner doesn't mind using his images here)!
I've just wanted to point out this extremely rare hardware to an all-tombac FLL para, we've seen this type of set up on some pilot obzervers from the same maker (even though some of us don't feel very comfortable with this variation).
The hinge is well visible from the seller's pics, but the catch is not (maybe shepard's hook maybe regular C catch), BTW perhaps the owner of the badge will be kind enough to post a detailed pic of the catch.
We are used to the block hinge and the shepard's hook catch!
All in all a RARE bird!
Tom, do you have this variation in the upcomming book!

[Lubo]

Here is what we are used to

[Mike Kenny]

I don't know who sold or bought the first badge, but to be honest it scares me.

Forgetting about the hardware, I see weak detail on the wreath and eagle, I see potential casting pock marks ont he obverse of the wreath, I see a "soft" reverse profile on the eagle, I see no indications of any remaining fire-gilding (early unknown maker / ?FLL PO wreaths WERE fire gilded) and I see a yellow wierd patina on the reverse of the wreath.

Regarding the pin, it appears to be rusting, which would imply it is steel, which would imo be totally wrong for an early unknown maker badge.

Gut feeling from those pics is that the badge is an older unknown maker repro, which have been around for ages.

Regards
Mike

[Tim B.]

No offense to the seller, but I have some serious doubts on that Kreta Cufftitle he sold along with this badge as well. IMO, it's not a good one.
Tim

[liquide]

i agree with Lubo - needle and hinge are not Original

i have an original (don´t know how i can post pictures) and
hinge is that one Lubo posted

hardware from eagle and wreath seems to be good, on a fake
i see (Beck militaria) hardware is not so detailed

best regards,
Martin

[martin hall]

Hi guys am at work at pressent so can,t post photos , but am sure catch is shepards hook type. as for hinge and pin may be replacements all the rest looks ok as stated, as far a kreta band goes it was posted on the forum and given ok can,t find the link but think its was given by uncle kurt . as far as badge i was also led to belive it to be ok, FLL as i was not asking 500+ for just badge alone , was trying to give a starter collector a fair deal . most likley deal is dead in the water , but thats what the forums about, best for now martin.

[Lubo]

No disrespect to the seller, but when one bothers to do the comparison - the differences between the badge in question and an original badge are obvious!
There is also another nice original in Chris' thread (this guy is killing me with these minty paras).
Read more about the wreath flaws in Tom's book!
Compare yourself

[Thomas Durante]

Tom, do you have this variation in the upcomming book!

Hi guys,

Yes Lubo, this variant is in my upcoming book.......its Reproduction #5

You have a VERY good eye because these FLLs are one of the better made fakes on the market today, along with Meybauers. The wreath and eagle of these FLLs were cast from an original badge, so they are VERY close to originals. But there are differences, and as you guys already pointed out, mainly in the reverse hardware setup. Here are a few other fakes that are identical to this one, with more believable hardware (but still off and different from originals).

Tom

[Thomas Durante]

Here is another fake, also identical to the one that started this thread.

Tom

[Tim B.]

Hi Martin,

I don't know, I still don't like the cufftitle. You've had a few over the years and of all the nice ones you had, I like this one the least.

Here's the 2008 thread where Uncle Kurt said it was an original CT, though no one else commented. "UK" didn't allude if the CT was original WWII or a '57 issue.

kreta band opinions - Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums

Later, in 2009, you again asked the question on a Kreta CT sewn to a uniform that you even had doubts on, and Uncle Kurt replied that this CT was a '57 copy.

kreta band opinions - Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums

You can see the threading is the exact same style pattern, though on different cloth fabric. The lettering is near identical and I have never seen a period original that had this pattern, especially when looking at the letter "R".

Anyway, that is what I am basing my comments on. We know it's not the early style original pattern and it's not the pattern that had the RBN# for sure.

Tim

The two from the attached threads shown for comparison:

[Tim B.]

Hi Martin,

Not going out of my way to tube your CT here, just stumbled across this old thread and it comfirms my suspicions on your Kreta CT here. IMO, a copy. Same pattern of stitching and material. You might also want to check the 57 forum; I have not yet.

http://70.87.163.50/forums/showthrea...ghlight=afrika

Tim