LW Aluminium Assmann Breast Eagles (Summer Uniform)

[Jos L C]

another.

[Jos L C]

Here's the A that's also on Rick's zink eagle.
This one is on the back of a cap eagle of mine.
Jos.

[Skip Pickett]

A Close Up shot from John Hodgin

Very close up...

[John Hodgin]

Luft. eagles for summer uniforms

Hi Jos,

Here is the close up of the DRGM marking on the back of an aluminum eagle as promised. The initals are dinged up a bit, sorry, it came that way. You can also see the edge 'rim' I mentioned earlier.

Thanks for posting again for me hermshead. Good fishing, hope you catch some big ones!

[Ralph Heinz]

Alum. eagles

Gentlemen,
The photo of the fake cast A marked eagle that Jos posted earlier came from me -- HOWEVER, I have one identical to the A marked eagle Jos also posted and it came on a LW Leutnant's Sahariana tunic I got from an antique dealer in Arizona in the mid 1990s who didn't know beans about German militaria and this was all he had in that field. That tunic has sewn in yellow piped officer shoulder boards, loops for one badge and a short ribbon bar. It is also LBA marked and dated 1942.

That eagle has definite shear marks on the edges -- quite sharp. The base for the pin (on the right side on the back) is stamped as part of the badge just like the one Jos posted and on the fake copy this item it is a small folded brass base soldered on with soft solder (something seen frequently in fake badges).

The fake one is obviously made from a mold of this same eagle -- the key being that it is about 5% smaller than the original (which happens when you make a mold from an original and the cast metal shrinks slightly as it cools; the edges don't show the sharp cut marks from being stamped out; it has a crudely soldered brass hinge and loop; and the details on the front are fuzzy. I got the fake in the last 2 years off eBay and kept it as a good example of a FAKE having been made from a mold of an original. I also kept the name of the seller as he had posted a different photo from the one he sent me and it was obvious he was a rip-off artist. The photo he posted on eBay showed an original with the proper details.

I also have a droop tailed tombak eagle and John, since you asked about these, I'm sending you a scan of the three so your email will be tied up for sometime downloading these photos -- don't be upset when it takes 20 minutes or more.

When it comes to an Assmann catalog and whether or not these eagles are shown there -- do we really believe that firm only produced one catalog in its long existence and that catalog included everything they ever made so anything not shown there is a fake?

[John Hodgin]

Aluminum Luft. eagles

Hi Ralph,

Good to hear from you. Looking forward to seeing the scan of the droop tailed version. Can you post a low resolution of it here for all to see? The droop tail summer eagles are seen in period photos, often being worn by aircrew, but they are scarce. You are lucky to have an example.
Best,
John

[Rich G]

I don't think using the Assmann catalogue as reference is a good method and here's why.

Lets say the catalogue is first printed in 1935. Some more items are added to the inventory, so a new catalogue printed. I would guess that a new page is added rather than the catalogue being completely re-designed.

Let's say it's later in the war, some dies have worn out and have been replaced (let's say pilots badge). The new pilots badge is slightly different from the picture in the catalogue, because it shows the first model. Do you think the company would go
" Well the wreath now is slightly different at that acorn and the eagles wing-tips are now not so sharp. I know, Let's go spend a stack of money and get the catalogue updated with a picture of this new badge!"

I don't think so.

The die may have changed but effectively it's still the pilots badge and the catalogue is displaying the products the companys manufacturers, it doesn't have to have millimetre perfect images of the badge.

So because the eagle may not match what is in the catalogue, doesn't mean it's a fake.

Rich

[John Hodgin]

Assmann Badges

Hi R. Gorden,
Just something to consider. I have a very early Assmann jump badge with a nickle/silver wreath and a brass eagle, and also a very late war zinc example. Except for the tonal differences from the materials used the fronts of both are virtually identical.
Best,
John

[Jos L C]

Thank you John,
Great close up.
Another thing to consider is:
Why didn't they fake the D.R.G.M. eagle ?
Why did fakers made completely new tools too STAMP a new type of Summer eagle ?
The D.R.G.M. eagle and the big A are two completely different eagles and the big A is definately stamped and has shear marks as Ralph pointed out.
I have two big A's and one has a nice polished swastika ( something the faker did to get more profit ??)
I'm in with Richard that a catalogue does not show all items and there are no reprints every time something is changing.
Someone I know has a original catalogue and I know another man that has the factory catalogue,a very thick one,I'll ask to have a look in these,who knows ??

Jos.

[Jos L C]

Polished swastika.

[François SAEZ]

1

[François SAEZ]

2

[Tim Calvert]

Is it possible that the "box of fakes" mentioned by Francois was
copied from the big A eagles?
If all big A eagles do turn out to be fakes, then I'll say that the
fakers did do a nice job! Mine is also die struck and I noticed that
the hinge system is the same as the accepted type. Check out
the photo and compare it to John's hinge shot.
I've had this adler for over 5 years and it does look old when
viewed uner 10x magnification.
?? ?? ??

[Jos L C]

Thanks François,
Now I can point out that the Beobachter abzeichen we see in this catalogue is definately NOT the one most collectors have in their collection.
I.M.O. we have to deal with a early catalogue here.
As I said:I'm still open minded !

Jos.

[François SAEZ]

Jos,

Please, no conclusion, as you have stated "I'm in with Richard that a catalogue does not show all items and there are no reprints every time something is changing."

The purpose was only to illustrate some drawings in an Assmann catalog - no more

François