Question on Radio Operator's/Gunners badge - Deumer?

[Richard]

Here is a Radio Operator's/Gunner's Badge I picked up off the e-stand recently. I had some questions that popped up when I received it. The measurments and weight correspond closest to Deumer from what I can find in the forum information (height 52 cm, width 41.5 cm, eagle 42.5 cm, weight 27 grams). However I cannot find a Deumer marked badge to compare it to. Additionally every badge picture I find has the eagles head and the lightning bolts inside the wreath. This badge most definitely has them overlapping part of the wreath. Also the lightning bolts are solid and not cut out. Do Deumer badges have this characteristic? If this isn't a Deumer, any ideas who this might be? The badge is unmarked. Has a flat wire catch. Catch, pin and hinge are all magnetic. There is a round disk on which the catch sits. I really can't seem to get a good picture with my scanner and much of the disk is obscured with solder. Any opinions and information would be appreciated.
Richard V

[skip]

Hi Rich,

for me definatly not a Deumer. If I had to go out on a limb I might be inclined to say that it looks like an Jmme. Don´t take that for gospel though.

Skip

[Richard]

Skip, do you have a picture of a Deumer or a JMME? Thanks for your answer.
Richard V

[Bryan Poon]

Skip, do you have a picture of a Deumer or a JMME? Thanks for your answer.
Richard V

Hello Richard

Here is a Deumer LW Radio Operator Badge in my collection. You will see what different in between your example and my example, Hope this help.

http://www.geocities.com/bkobp/ww2/w...airgunner.html

Cheers
BP

[Mark S.]

Deumer, obverse

[Mark S.]

Deumer, reverse

[Mark S.]

JMME & Sohn, Obverse

[Mark S.]

JMME & Sohn, reverse.

[Richard]

Thanks for the photos guys. It really looks like neither. The lightning bolts and swaz are solid in Mark's Deumer badge but the one I pictured seems to have larger bolts as they are definitely in contact with the wreath. None of the pictured examples of Deumer or JMME seem to have this characteristic. When viewed with the other badges the eagle just appears bigger due to this than it does on the marked badges even though the size in mm compares favorably with the Deumer measurements in our badge section. Anyone with any clues or any badges that look remotely like this?
Richard V

[Mark S.]

Hi Richard

Although correct in your determination that your badge is not the same as the two I presented, I couldnt help but notice that you are comparing details that are more manufacturer orientated than those of actual design.

Most early Air gunner badges have cut out swastikas and and detailed, cut out, lightening bolts. The JMME badge I posted is an early nickle version, and such, the handfinishing is what one would expect from most manufacturers at this point in time, regardless of maker.

The Deumer is a later verison, made in finezink, and as expected from these types, the swaz is not cut out and the blitzbundle is far more less likely to show the detail of the earlier versions made of tombac quality. This expedited form of manufacture is seen in all makers of air gunners at this point of the war.

What you should be paying attention to is details in the wreath and the eagle on the badge, and not so much the way it was made. If you look at the tail feathers for instance, you will see that your do not match the two I presented. If you could find a bird that matches yours on a marked badge, you would be much more closer to indentifying the maker, than if you only concentrate on the singular manufacturing characteristics inherent in all air gunner badge of a particular time.

I did notice also that your eagle seems to be riding a bit low on the badge. Odd, but not unheard of. I certainly wouldnt consider this a trait of any maker though. It just looks like sloppy workmanship.

[Richard]

Thanks for the information Mark. I'll keep a closer eye on these types of details and see if I can manage a match. Thanks for the help.
Richard V