FLL Flak badge but with marking of Assman?

[FLiPSiDE]

Ok so this badge which I've identified as an FLL (Garlasco Flak book pg175) is listed on a popular dealers website. I'd like to buy it but since it's got an odd Assman marking I figured I'd post it up for opinions. It looks like a good FLL to me just with a superfluous "A" maker mark for Assman. I know that some dealers back in the day used to mark unmarked badges in hopes of making them more desirable so perhaps this is the case? Or is this badge just all out bad? Or maybe a good badge that was just sold by Assman?
As always your opinions are very much appreciated!

[Marc Garlasco]

Same badge?

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ht=fll+assmann

[Van]

I believe you are correct Flak.. the second badge in your link is the same badge as listed in this post...
I also think/agree with your thoughts that there may be some kind of connection between Assmann and FLL,,, there was an FLL Pilots badge listed within the last month or maybe two months that had the same oval catch plate and hinge setup. and the Assmann makers mark on this Flak looks correct from what I can tell from the pics... just my 2 cents worth....
Van

[Marc Garlasco]

It's a good FLL, that's for sure.

[FLiPSiDE]

It does appear to be the same badge. Only thing different appears to be the lighting of the photos. So it seems FLL and Assman just had a close business relationship (no funny stuff here)? Perhaps Assman outsourced to FLL for some of it's Luft badges?

I pulled the trigger on the badge pictured and it should be shipping to me the middle of next week. That puts me at six Flak badges now (and still on the hunt)! Thanks guys!

[Leroy]

I mentioned this recently in another thread, but it might be a good idea to mention it again here.

One of the folks over at GCA has done very good research regarding the relationships between the Ludenschied companies. His research revealed that these companies were not only physically close in proximity to each other, but had social and family connections which led him to conclude (in his words) that these companies "shared EVERYTHING".

I have no problem at all believing that a perfectly good badge by FLL could legitimately have an Assmann mark. Further, I can see that same relationship between B&NL and Deumer, S&L and Assmann, etc., etc., etc.. Similar relationships could exist betwen other companies in Berlin, Gablonz, etc.

[Andreas Klein]

Hello Leroy,

you remember the thread in the GCA right. The makers of Lüdenscheid worked together before the world war when they produced buttons and such things.

In a history of Lüdenscheid this time was called the area of the "Lüdenscheider button trust". They idea for that was to be a strong area against the business competition outside of Lüdenscheid.

To make this perfect there were some personal relations between certain firms. If i remember right Mr. Conze the owner of "Wilhelm Deumer" married a "Assmann" girl f.e.

Btw. the big 3: Assmann, SuL and Deumer were located some hundreds meters away from each other.

Therefore it was easy for them to share knowledge and tools.

For example:

You will find this "unique" catch we are looking at this so called "FLL" Flak badge on awards of the following Lüdenscheid based firms:

- Hymnen
- Linden
- Steinhauer
- Deumer
- Assmann

What is the reason for that?

1.
We had an interview with a still living member of the Assmann family and asked him:

What happend if you ran out of setups or material?

He smiled and answered:
No problem ... if you walked some meters the street down you could get what you want from another firm.

2.
It's a myth that award makers produced their setup by their own. They bought it like the packets or cases from third party firms. Due to the fact that only a few suppliers were able to deliever "accepted" setups many makers get their setups from the same supplier.

If i remember right the supplier for Lüdenscheid was located in the city of Hagen.

So if you have unmarked badges:

Finding it's maker based on the setup it's some sort of lottery and gives you a wide area of possible makers.

[Nordmark]

I think we should really look forward to the wound badge book...



Regards,


Daniel

[Thomas Durante]

Very good information Andreas, thanks for sharing with us a little taste of the VWA book.

I agree that the Assmann mark on this FLL flak badge looks really good, same style as can be found on Assmann's other badges. The stamp looks nice and deep, which makes me think it is original to the badge and not added later on to enhance its value.

Here is an FLL para badge with another Assmann mark. However, the light strike and weird font of the "A" suggest that it was added postwar. Interesting how its on an FLL badge though.

Tom

[Leroy]

Andreas,
Thank you very much for this truly valuable information. Your research is fundamental to our understanding of how the process REALLY worked! It is my personal view that, without this understanding, we would be incapable of ever being able to sort out the origin of many pieces.
Regards,
Leroy

[John T]

I remember seeing a French made HSF that looked good with an Assmann "A" hallmark--and that threw me....this was about ten years ago so I can not say if it was an exact Assmann hallmark. I do understand that the English added "A" markings to unmarked pieces to make them more saleable as people wanted marked badges in the 1970's but I agree that the above research is very good. There seem to be a fair amount of zinc FLL pilot badges with all sorts of markings around with no consensus as to why the markings are there.

John