J 3... Zinc, just in..

[J Temple-West]

Hi Guy's, The right hand talon is still attached to the 'swaz' and he also missed the piece of metal sticking out of the 'swaz' top left.. On the reverse you will see that he must have mis-aligned the rivet on his first attempt, leaving a ring just under the actual rivet...All probably due to the finishing work being done by an unskilled worker in the Juncker factory or was It just 5 to 5 on a Friday afternoon...

[J Temple-West]

Back...

[IVAN]

Hi,

I don't think there are many chances for this badge to be an original juncker 3rd pattern.

ivan

[Philippe DB]

Hi John,

I have the same one in my "good" picture files. Don't know were I got it from so I can't post it.

This badge always puzzled me. There are some good points to it but I also see quit some features that I dont like e.g, elephant nose on the eagle, wreath, rivets and catch. So realy am curious to hear other opinions on this Pilot Badge.

KR
Philippe

[Yuri D.]

I think that the catch may have been replaced on this badge, but I think this badge is a genuine zinc J3, which makes sense that they produced the last Tombak design in zinc. The beak may look banana-like becasue of the wear around it. But the rest of the badge looks fine to me.

Yuri

[Philippe DB]

Hi Yuri

Don't know if this helps but the catch on the one in my picture files is an exact match to the one on John's badge. So I would tend to think that it's original to the badge.

An other good point on the one in my files is that it show heavy zink bubbling on the reverse. The kind of bubbling you never see on copies.

KR
Philippe

[J Temple-West]

Thanks for the input guys.. I've just been looking through all reference files and have found many matches, to mine, in both Tombak/buntmetal and Zinc, including two from D's site that have this piece of metal on the upper left arm of the 'Swaz', although not protuding as much (something I'd not noticed before on J 3's).. The catch, posted below, seems to be original to the piece and the back of the bird has the often seen 'Zinc bubbling' across it's surface..

The wreath has a few small cracks in the surface, again often seen on zinc badges and caused by the cooling process..

Well, I've got the flu and am off to my bed... Better tomorrow...

ATISHCHOOOO!!... Bless me...

[Brian S]

Nice J3 there John. Maybe the air raid siren went off as he was about to drop his mallet

[Yuri D.]

Here is another original example from "Terry G". This badge has the correct catch for this type.

Yuri

[Yuri D.]

Closeup of the obverse.

[Yuri D.]

And the reverse with the correct catch.

Yuri

[Mark S.]

I think the catch is replaced on it too, John.

Seems to be OK, pretty good shape too, despite the distortion in the eagle. I did notice that it even has the die flaw bubble on the right wing (viewers right), just like my tombac J-3.

[Yuri D.]

Not all Tombak J3 badges have this flaw.

Yuri

[J Temple-West]

Hi Mark, could you have a look at your Tombak example and see if the bubble (flaw) lines up with the rivet.. It looks like 'Hans' the heavy handed mallet swinger mis-calculated the length of the rivet and pushed it a little too far through the wing, causing the metal to dome.. Mine looks to line up and could be an explanation as to why this 'flaw' Isn't found to be a common die characteristic...

[IVAN]

Hi my friends,

I'm sorry but I have always the same doubts about it.

it has many points that can be compared as a Juncker piece but there are many points too they are strange for a juncker .

over the catch and the beak , other points are not nice , especially in reverse side..
for example wreath is different comparing a "normal" 3rd pattern , with a "round " form in every parts ( characteristic of many reproduction of pilot badges ) . Differences are evident between Yuri's example too.

always from reverse side you can see different points in the eagle too.
look the rivets, they have not a good round definition, usual in every Juncker badges.

position of hinge .

Alloy is strange.

claws.

catch doesn't seam to be removed and replaced, it has no crash area around .

maybe I am wrong and this is a original one but these are just only my thoughts around it.

Yuri is right about the flaw, mine has not.

regards

ivan