Juncker Flak SW versus SW68

[Lorenzo Brown]

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[Rich G]

Lorenzo

Your eagle has almost the exact same features as mine... must have been made on the same day by the same clumsy worker... maybe a day-release apprentice?


Great thread! Anyone want to start one on the non-maker marked Ball hinge flak badges??


Rich

[Philippe DB]

Lorenzo, thanks for posting yet another nice example. Like Rich I immediately noticed the additional line in the left wing and the less defined inner feather detailing, certainly visible on the right inner feathers.

My first thought went towards a 3 pattern eagle but I would rather like to think that this was the result of the die die getting worn out and maybe the reason for making a new one resulting in the second pattern eagle. So IMO yours and Rich's were probably the last of the early badges.

Concerning the finish, that I realy can't work out. When I look at the badges posted by Frank, Eric and Lorenzo I'm tempted to go with the special black finish theory.

On the other hand if all these badges contained silver who knows what 60+ years can do to the patina.

But than again I'm thinking that maybe the only real Nickel Silver Badge here is my badge. I'm keeping that option open because untill now nobody posted another one with that same soft look, thick vains in the leaves and lack of detailing. For more details cfr. this thread

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ad.php?t=32288

KR
Philippe

[spectre]

Zinc Juncker?

Here is a zinc flak badge I got way back in 1980 that has the hinge and catch that is common to zinc juncker badges. I has some blue corossion on the catch like it is made of brass, what do ya'll think of this one?

Alan

[Philippe DB]

Dear Alan,

I don't know if you read this thread but this type of badge already was discussed.

I think everybody agrees that they are original but no way to proof that they are Juncker. Catch is like you say often encountered on Juncker badges but that for sure isn't the case with the hinge.

KR
Philippe

[JAMES.M]

Nickel Silver Badge

Philippe,

I have a Nickle Silver badge that I feel is the same as yours. It too has the soft appearance, however, the detailing of the rivits on mine appears to be sharper. Excuse the photo quality.
Cheers,
James

[Frank Heukemes]

Catch is like you say often encountered on Juncker badges but that for sure isn't the case with the hinge

Dear Philippe,

I think that might be a mistake and Alan is quite right calling that setup a Juncker one, even the hinge. A good number of zinc Juncker paras do have exactly that short hinge. It can be deducted that these normally unmarked paras are Juncker because the wreath and the eagle is exactly Juncker.

So for whatever reason another die was used for the zinkers, it is possible to assume the badge Alan shows is a Juncker. With Juncker going zinc with all of their other badges at some point in time, it would be logical to assume there also must be a zinc Juncker Flak Badge.

Cheers, Frank

[Philippe DB]

Hi Frank,

Thanks for setting this straight. I knew when I was typing it that I shouldn't have used "for sure" without checking all my files first. Think I was getting a little tired.

Ok If we all agree that it is an unmarked Juncker than we can call it officialy a third type taken in to account the different design features.

Looks like Juncker was doing some catching up on lost rivets with every new design

Frank I guess your happy to now because your quest for the missing zink badge just came to an end

@James, thanks for posting your badge james but based upon the pictures you posted I think it's more the typical 2 pattern. Your vains look much more defined, your has the lower rivets and the thicker wreath. Nice badge.

KR
Philippe

[Frank Heukemes]

Frank I guess your happy to now because your quest for the missing zink badge just came to an end

That is right, Philippe. And I admit without shame: I LOVE good looking zink badges. They are more "WWII" for me, Buntmetall is ladies jewellery!

Just kidding, Buntmetall is extremely nice too, but guys, appreciate the zinkers more, most have great character.

Cheers, Frank

[JAMES.M]

Second pattern....yeah, that's what I meant!!
Cheers,
James

[Philippe DB]

Hi Guys,

Just could sleep last night because I felt that there were still a couple of loose ends in this thread

1. Where was the brother of my badge
2. Where was the twin brother of toby's SW68 badge
3. If the theory of the transistion eagle on my badge is correct than there should also exist a badge with a first pattern eagle on the softer looking wreath.

I'm glad to announce that 1 loose end can be tight up (dont know if you say it like that in English)

Gentleman I'm proud to present "softy" number two.

So I guess two loose ends left, please keep your eyes open.

KR
Philippe

[Philippe DB]

In between posting the two pics an other thought crossed my mind.

This isn't a badge made from an other material but one of the last badges comming out of the first pattern die, already featuring the second pattern eagle. The first die at that moment was already very worn (loss of details) and very dirty, causing metall impurities which also could explain the holes in the wreath.

Wouldn't that make sence

KR
Philippe

[Philippe DB]

Hi Guys,

Me again With just one more thought born from my never sleeping brain.

Probably we won't be aible to find a "softy" with a 1 pattern eagle.

Why you ask?

Well just look at the badges posted by Lorenzo and Rich. The die for the eagle clearly suffered more than the die for the wreath. On both Lorenzo and Rich's badge the eagle clearly lost detail. So they decided to make a new one and used it for a little longer on the first pattern wreath untill they had to changed that one too.

If we all agree than we only have one remaining loose end. Finding another SW68.

KR
Philippe

[Frank Heukemes]

If we all agree then we only have one remaining loose end. Finding another SW68.

Ok, all you guys, take a look in your "fake" boxes!
There must be another one to look at!

Cheers, Frank

[TobyR]

Hi Everybody,

I'd like to resurrect this thread if you don't mind.

A couple of months back, Detlev featured a badge v. similar to mine (the SW68 example) as his 'fake of the week'. Personally, I did not feel that the badge was the same: it looked quite pitted to the reverse. Unfortunately though, I didn't keep the scans: perhaps somebody else has? I also felt that we, with Philippe's exhaustive efforts, had put this one to bed, once and for all.
Anyway, I would appreciate your thoughts on this and, hopefully, somebody has the scans, so we can discuss this further.

Presently, my badge is once again in limbo.

All the best,
Toby.