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    #1

    Juncker Flak SW versus SW68

    Hi Guys,

    Would appreciate your help on this one.

    I think we all agree the Juncker produced two versions of there buntmetal Luft flak badge with different obverse details. Is there also a general acceptance that two different maker marks on buntmetal badges being "Berlin SW" and "Berlin SW 68" were used. Is one pattern linked to one MM or were both MM used on the 2 patterns?

    If you have either or both of these badges in your collection I would love to see some pictures of them.

    Thanks in advance

    KR
    Philippe
    Last edited by Philippe DB; 09-05-2003, 04:40 PM.
    Tags: None
    #2
    Dear Philippe,

    I have seen the two different designs for Juncker Flak Badges, but never one with a "Berlin SW 68" mark. Always without the "68". Have you got pics of one with the "68"?

    Cheers, Frank

    Cheers, Frank
    Cheers, Frank

    Comment

      #3
      Not On A Flak

      Hello Philippe,
      I too have seen the two styles you speak of. I have not seen this mark on any of them, just the "Berlin SW". The "SW 68" was a late war mark. The marking is a real one but.... the only "SW 68" marking for Juncker - made badges that I've seen and believe to be real are on late war ZINC Air Gunner Badges. I've not ever seen a marking like this on any real buntmetall badge and would not expect to see one on an earlier badge made of buntmetall, only later ones(Air Gunners') in ZINC. Here is the "68" mark on a Air Gunner / Flight Engineer Badge I own.
      ERIC
      Attached Files

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        #4
        Hi,

        The "SW 68" marking on ANY non-zinc Juncker badge would be cause for extreme concern imo.

        Regards
        Mike K
        Regards
        Mike

        Evaluate the item, not the story and not the seller's reputation!

        If you PM/contact me without the courtesy of using your first name, please don't be offended if I politely ignore you!

        Comment

          #5
          Hi
          here is a Flakabz. marked SW68 in zink that I believe original.
          Attached Files

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            #6
            Very interesting, Jacques (although it is a Heer Flak)! It seems the late war mark that Eric shows is identical to yours. Note the short downstroke line of the R in BERLIN and the crippled "underbelly" of the 8.

            Cheers, Frank
            Cheers, Frank

            Comment

              #7
              Hi Everybody,

              I'm posting, at the request of Philippe, some pics of my Juncker Luft. Flak badge which features the mm in question. This was discussed some months back but no definitive answer was reached.

              Looking forward to your comments.

              All the best,
              Toby.
              Attached Files

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                #8
                And a shot of the front:
                Attached Files

                Comment

                  #9
                  And the reverse:
                  Attached Files

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Dear Toby,

                    Very interesting badge that shows yet again the very same maker´s mark (short R stroke and crippled 8).
                    Other than the barrel highlights being a bit undetailed (which could be wear), I see no fault in the badge itself.

                    Maybe we have to revise the 68 rule (only for zinkers)?

                    Cheers, Frank
                    Cheers, Frank

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Hi Frank,

                      I agree, the mark is the same as that posted by Eric and Jacques. I also, think you are right that the lack of detail on the barrel is down to wear, since it is effectively the high spots that have worn down. The badge itself is caked in crud but I have not cleaned it. In contrast to the barrel, the adler is very sharp and strongly detailed (IMO).

                      Thanks for commenting.


                      All the best,
                      Toby.

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Thanks Toby for posting the badge.

                        Like I told you in my e-mail, IMO this is a good badge realy can't find anything wrong with it.

                        The only thing we have to work out here is the use by Juncker of the SW68 mark. Based upon the information I gathered untill now I believed that the Juncker luft Flak badges with clearly visible rivets were the first pattern badges. However taking in to account that the SW 68 logo on other Juncer badges is only found on later war pieces my conclusion would be that the pattern with the rivets is the 2 pattern and the badge I'll post now the first pattern. This also would make the most sence. Why delete details in a second pattern? The most logical thing would be to add some improvementes (the rivets) to you new design.

                        I realy would love to see other Juncker marked SW68 badges to see if this theory makes sence.

                        KR
                        Philippe
                        Attached Files

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                          #13
                          Reverse Juncker SW marked Flak
                          Attached Files

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                            #14
                            Hi Philippe, here's mine.. Different detailing to the feathers on the right wing.. MM is the 'Berlin SW'
                            Warmest Regards ... John

                            cimilitaria.com

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Hi John,

                              Thats realy interesting !

                              What do we have here 2 patterns of canons in combination with 2 patterns of eagles and two MM. Thats sufficient to reach a total of 12 possible variants of the Juncker Luft Flak if I'm not mistaken.

                              Untill yesterday evening I felt quit confident with my knowlegde that there existed only 2 variants.

                              So who has other Juncker Luft Flak badge we could see. Realy curious to see where this will lead us to.

                              KR
                              Philippe

                              Comment

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