Assmann 800 silver pilot!!!!

[skip]

Hello all,

Today i have been given two badges to evaluate.
Both come from a friend of mine and he in turn has them from a family
here in Berlin. Apparently the father was a pilot(but who knows!)

Here is the first one. The moment I saw the front of this I thought it was an Assmann.
Lo and behold, I turn it over th find something pretty strange.

I know what is wrong with this, but please take in the details,especially from the front, and give me your thoughts.

Thanks, Skip

[Frank Heukemes]

Dear Skip,

Maybe an original eagle with a replacement wreath that was cast in silver? I find it strange that the hinge is neither typical for Assmann Buntmetall, Alu or Zink badges.

Do you think the wreath actually is silver? The missing highlight detail could be from actual wear???

Cheers, Frank

[Philippe DB]

Hi Skip,

The only thing I can make of it is an original Assmann eagle with a custome made wreath. The only thing that doesn't make sence to me is the 800 mark on the eagle. If a jeweler made a silver wreath why not simply stamp the wreath

KR
Philippe

[Neil Howes]

Hi Skip,

It really doesn't make alot of sense, other than the original owner or the family had it put together from the original. Concur with Philippe.

Probably one of the great unknown's??

Regards,

Neil

[Joseph D'Errico]

Hewllo Gentleman,

Well, this is a first for me and I must say that I would never buy such a piece.

Orginal..........Hmmmmmmmm the only thing I really can say may have some province is the eagle. The rest of the piece is chop shop.

The wear on the eagle vs the wreath (even if silver) does not match.

I really don't like the 800 mark, ugly and doesn't make sense , also the rivets are pretty bad.

Eagle maybe............the rest is not for me.

Just an Observation.
JD

PS I have not really ever seen one marked 800 that I really liked.

[Lorenzo Brown]

I agree with everything that Joe said.

[skip]

Some interesting thoughts indeed.

I think this could be one of the pieces put togeather for allied soldiers as souviniers. I doubt that there is a gramm of silver in it anywhere.
None the less, it is an Assmann eagle and, all be it very worn,wreath

I agree of course with Joes comments, I did in fact state at the start that I know what is wrong with this, it was just an interesting piece that I thought you all might like to see. There was never any intention on my part to buy it.

thanks for the observations.

later today, if it stops raining, I will do some pics of the 2nd bird.

Skip

[J Temple-West]

An Interesting curio, at least It woke the brain up this morning.. It's one of those pieces that you wish had provenance... but alas, I have to agree with the comments above..

Looking forward to seeing the second...

[ERIC S.]

Hi Skip,
I too would have thought Assmann from the get go, maybe a nicely worn front. The reverse is a dead giveaway though. I'm sorry this one didn't turn out to be a good one for you. Joe is right with the uneven wear between the eagle and wreath - the eagle is way to crisp to be mated with a wreath in such worn condition IMO.
ERIC

[skip]

Heres a little comparison between my good one and the one shown above.

Just interesting to compare them.

Skip

[Joseph D'Errico]

Hi Skip,

The problem that I have with any Pilot badge with a silver wreath is , Why?? Why make a piece with a tomback eagle and put it on a silver wreath, pre- 1945?? Just doesn't add up to me. I am not saying that they did not exist, but why would anyone do that, what would be the reason, even if were a private purchase.

If I was an LW recipient of the award and wanted to upgrade the thing to silver , I would go all the way. If they were issued to special persons than why just make the wreath silver.

Can't remember is yours all silver or just the wreath??

These types of pieces are not for me, that is my choice, which does not mean to say that yours is not original.

The second example you posted, I believe is a chop job straight out.

Your example is one that leaves the door open to discretion for me.

I am going to be a pain here and ask if you could post a pic of the reverse of yours again. I would be grateful.

Cordially yours,
JD

[Richard]

I'm not so sure that the first badge pictured has a worn wreath. I think it may just be a casting that never captured good detail to begin with.
Richard V

[Philippe DB]

Richard, of course your right, just imagin how the eagle, that is placed higher, would have looked if this was the result of genuin wear.

KR
Philippe

[skip]

eeehhhh!!! Joe,

I never implied that the first badge shown is a authentic, pre 1945 , award badge. It is just something that crossed my hands and I thought you guys might like to see it. Just for fun , know what I mean.

In the comparison picture above the badge on the left is a normal (Brits would say bog standard), Assmann pilot badge. I just wanted to put both up side by side so that everybody could see just how strange the wreath looks.

I do have one 800 silver pilot badge, but that is a Juncker. Its your thing if you don´t want to accept these as originals.

By the way, if one of those 800 silver copies passes your way you could always sell it to me, as a repop of course

Skip

[Joseph D'Errico]

HI Skip,

Naw, I knew what you meant in posting the first piece, what I could not remember was the 800 one that you have was an Assman or Junckers.

No I don't except them, but that dosen't mean that they are not original, means that they are not of interest to me.

Thought I was clear, sorry for the misunderstanding.

JD