J1 800 + J1 comparison

[skip]

Hi all,

sorry for starting a new thread on this but I think it is worth it.
After doing these comparisons I am even more convinced that this is an original.
I have been playing with the idea of sending this to Detlev, but I do not trust the german post enough to put it in their hands.

Here the measurements:

J1 800

wreath height: 52mm
wreath width: 30,1mm
material thick: 1,6mm
swaz. width 9,5mm

J1

wreath height: 52mm
wreath width: 29,5mm
material thick: 1,5mm
swaz. width 9,6mm

I don´t think it is worth measuring the eagle as their is to much hand finishing.

Gentlemen, further comments would be much appreciated.

Skip

[skip]

Here the backs, which is,nt really necessary as they are totally different. I think we have had many discussions wer people have said ignore the backs and compare the die characteristics. I am sure that these came from the same die.
Notice the maker mark, not the clearest I know, but look carefully at the L and the S, they have the typical Juncker traits.

Skip

[Joseph D'Errico]

Hello Skip,

Just my thoughts and observations;

- Why would they stamp it with the 800 silver mark so many times?

- The uneveness of the wreath , is it bent ? or was that from the stamping of the silver content, just seems odd.

- This is just a question and nothing more, let say this piece was cast from an original, would it lack the telltale signs of a cast piece because silver was used rather than some other metal type.

- Maker mark, well I guess I could live with it given everything else was on.

Well, I guess you would have to go with your gut on such a piece . You have handled enough pieces, I think that even with the points I brought up, if it were me I would be inclined to keep it. This is the chance we take as collectors when we stray from textbook and get into variations of sorts.

I think that the multiple 800 stampings just does not make sense to me. But like the others a great learning piece for me and if this wasn't the one at the show Peter mentioned well that is even more interesting.

Thank you for posting the piece as well as the information .

Good luck,

JD

[Tim Calvert]

Hi Skip,

Just curious, is the 800 piece quite a bit heavier?

Another thought: is it possible that Juncker stamped out the eagle and wreath, then hallmarked the eagle as usual, but had a silversmith put it together and finish it?

[Philippe DB]

Hi Skip ,

Based upon your pics I find the detailing on the obverse (eagle & wreath) better on the 800 marked then on the j 1.

Just my observation.

KR
Philippe

[IVAN]

Hi Skip,

I would like to give to you my opinion.

Airgunner Juncker marked 800 is a known badge. we cannot compare it with yours because if so, we must say your piece is not good for the big differences in reverse side and for the material, but I don't want to think is not original for this simple raison.
I want to believe it's an original piece, we can see the badge has a nice older patina , measurements are okay, but my questions are =>

-why they have made a reverse so completely different from Juncker standard pieces, even if can be done from a privat jeweler ?

- sure there aren't known fonts that Juncker has done a pilot early type such this one, so must be done from a jeweler. Jewelers that has done badges for juncker worked very well and this badge has not good details in front either in reverse and the material used looks poor and not smooth surface. Really I cannot believe they used such a cacth and an hinge like this!

- hallmark would be CEJ or nothing and even if was right this hallmark, there are some syllables not conforming as Juncker's die ( look "E" "R".......). If a normal badge present a hallmark like this, we don't think a lot for give our opinion not good.

- eagle in front seems closed but if you look the legs and all its border from the reverse, it is very different ( what is important for me is the space between the feathers of the wing and are not corrects).



Ivan

[Tim B.]

Skip,

Just reading this and have already replied in the initial post on this badge. Still think it's good IMO.
Tim

[skip]

Hi guys,

thanks for all your thoughts. I am afraid I can,t answer most of the questions as I have no clue as to who could have put these togeather,
I want to thank Tim Ball for finding another example which he posted in my other thread and which I have copied to post here. Looks like a near 100% match to me, this has really put my mind at rest. Looks like a months wages well spent.

thanks. Skip