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**Gary B** · 03-02-2007, 10:50 PM

Hi,

I understand the remarks made regarding the high prices some badges are bringing but I would add that one must consider the rarity of badges like the one Patrice pictured in terms of condition. Prices for pieces of increasing condition can not be made based on a linear progression, it is an exponential curve. This rule applies to many other hobbies. Take for instance, coin collecting. An MS 65 coin might bring $2000, the same coin in MS 66 $10,000 and the same coin in MS 67 $45,000. Neither coin is rarer then the other in terms of how many were made, it is its conditional rarity that causes the great price leaps. A 1933 US Gold Double Eagle sold for $7.9 million a few years ago. So how does one establish a market for such things? As mentioned it is what one is willing to pay and there are plenty of collectors willing to pay. To each his own.

Gary B

**patrice** · 03-02-2007, 11:12 PM

Originally posted by Gary B View Post

.........As mentioned it is what one is willing to pay and there are plenty of collectors willing to pay. To each his own.Gary B

Indeed, I had 8 persons interested in buying my P/O badge for a "fair" market price.
What can I say, I don't make the rules and neither am I a dealer that sets the pricing, but if this is the price, then why should I sell it for less ?
Just a thought !
Pat

**spectre** · 03-02-2007, 11:36 PM

More power to you Pat if someone wants to pay up, I wouldn't turn it down either. But at the same time, I'm completely onboard with Jos, mega-bucks for even nice ones like this is out of hand to me

and I will leave them to someone else. There are better deals out there.

Alan

**Joe D** · 03-02-2007, 11:54 PM

Originally posted by patrice View Post

Indeed, I had 8 persons interested in buying my P/O badge for a "fair" market price.
What can I say, I don't make the rules and neither am I a dealer that sets the pricing, but if this is the price, then why should I sell it for less ?
Just a thought !
Pat

I understand your point as well. I guess it boils down to the market.

**Tim B.** · 03-03-2007, 12:53 AM

Hi Pat!

First, beautiful badge!

I would love one of these too.

Second, I don't think Jos was aiming his comments directly at you, but more towards the market and the feeding frenzy that has plagued this hobby over the last few years and especially since the birth of the internet and forums such as this one that has brought collectors all over the world together and allowed us to share our collections. Together, both have only driven the market up and up unfortunately.

Many of us, Jos one of the first, have seen this trend over the last few years and watched items that are scarce (maybe not really rare) skyrocket only because of market demand. Couple that with the Euro taking off a couple of years back and the big dealers have profited greatly and as Jos said, probably laughing all the way to the bank every week.

We have seen a small explosion of smaller dealers (formally collectors) jump onto the market scene of late and they have helped fuel the ever increase in prices as well. The day of "deals" are gone unless you're lucky enough to find the stuff first-hand from a veteran or family estate and you can bet those that do, don't sell the items for close to what they actually paid for them from the families, they check the market and list close to it.

Either way, you're correct, if you want to spend your money on such pieces, and can afford it, then who is to say anything different. It's your business. Personally, I couldn't justify paying that price, knowing that only a couple of years ago, a similar piece was half that amount and a few years before that, a fraction of that price. It's all sellers greed IMO and it has tremendous monetary opportunity for sellers, but unfortunately, has ruined the hobby and prospects for the average collectors.

Again, no offense directed towards you and congrats on a great badge!

Oh, and thanks Jos, for at least trying to keep some sense and reasonability in this whole hobby/business.

Tim

**patrice** · 03-03-2007, 09:33 AM

Tim and Jos, no offense taken and do agree with everything you have said about this "crazy market".
It is the greedy

dealers that sets the prices and we have sometimes no choice but to follow "their rules". Of course we can always say "NO", but waiting for the perfect bargain could take years, just like it may never happen either.
Would I be happy to get such a badge for $ 3000 USD ? Of course I would, but the question is, " is it possible to get such a badge at $ 3000 USD ? ", perhaps, but where, how and WHEN ?

I can only say that I've also paid top dollars for some items, and did help fuelled the pricing upward but sometimes you have no choice.

For example, I recently bought a unique Army Damascus by Tiger ( pictures in Johnson's book, volume VII pages 101 ) which wasn't cheap.
Most of my friends told me that I was crazy

to pay such a price but said to myself, "this could be the only chance I get to own such an original Army Damascus with provenance ". It took 30 years for Ron Weinand to get his Damascus Army and there is only a handful of these known to exist in the world.
What did I do ? I bought it, as I may never get another opportunity to own one of these.

**johannes post** · 03-03-2007, 10:05 AM

i have very soon a fantastic junckers 1 p/o for sale no joke !
the first who said 5000 dollar can also take my wife

yust kidding ! that would't be absurd 5000 dollar
on militaria collectibles there is also such a expensive one but never sold in this moment.

and it is there for at least 3 months.
so if you want a deal i say 3000 dollar for a good price.

regards johan

**Gary B** · 03-03-2007, 10:29 AM

Patrice,

It is indeed a wonderful Tiger damascus dagger you bought. One day I hope to get one as well.

Gary B

**Skipper Greenwade** · 03-03-2007, 10:45 AM

Thanks largely to the Internet and the big shows, I think there are several factors at play here...factors which have taken our "little" hobby into the mainstream - like it or not. Kinda like the kids who got together a long time ago to play sandlot basseball. They had so much fun that, before long, there were twenty kids, then forty, then.... Next adults got involved and began to organize things. Little League ball came to pass, then the Little League World Series, then parents began to push their kids to excel at the age of five, or six, or... so they could make All-Star, so they could play high school ball, so they could get a college scholarship or, maybe, even make millions playing pro ball.

Eventually, the sport became something so far removed from sandlot baseball, it was scarcely recognizable to the kids who just wanted to smack a ball around with their buddies, proving to be a blade that cuts both ways...it ceases to be something many kids can do just for fun, but it also affords a measure of opportunity for (an admittedly very small group of) kids who are driven/pushed to succeed.

One can still participate in the hobby at the "sandlot" level. They are perfectly content with a late-war, zinc PO badge with most of the finish long ago lost to zinc-pest. They may even hit the occasional "home run" on e-bay, at a yard sale or through an ad in the paper.

Others who are able to do so may choose to participate at a higher level (holding to my baseball analogy, these would be the ones who trade up from a broomstick to a top-of the line bat, swap out the Chuck Taylors for a pair of cleats, etc.)

They don't mind spending upwards of $1,000.00 to attend a show and aren't averse to paying for the things thay want. BTW, most are very thankful for the opportunities that have come their way (good paying job, inheritance, wise investments, etc.) and allow them this privilege. In many cases, these are the same ones who opt for a Corvette, Porsche or Ferrari over something plain, practical and functional.

I've stated many times here that I am not averse to paying dearly for an item for my collection if it is in "my" condition and is available when I'm ready to buy. I noted on another thread that I paid $700.00 for a boxed EK-II Spange at the S-O-S because that was one of the things I went there to buy. Two had hit the Crosses Fourm in the past 90 days - my PM's the the owners with an offer to buy were both met with resounding no's. There were over 1,500 tables at the S-O-S and there was exactly one boxed EK-II Spange there. The price was $750, later negotiated down to $700, so I bought it. Did that instantly set the market for boxed EK-II Spangen at $700.00? I don't think so - in fact, I wouldn't pay that for another one, because I've got mine.

There is a fixed amout of material available. Many items that are actively sought out are now only available when a major collection is sold off and the items simply don't come cheap. The 'Net and the big shows have exponentially increased competition for the "good stuff" - case in point, look at Detlev's Friday update or the feeding frenzy at Larry Marcella's S-O-S table! Sadly, at the end of the day, if you wanna play, you've got to pay - unless you've got an unlimited amount of time on your hands (I don't!), the patience of Job (never been one of my strong suits!) and have uncanny luck (let's just say you'll never see me on the World Series of Poker Tour!).

The point of all this is that there will always be people out there who have more than each of us in terms of time, talent, you name it. There will also be many who have much, much less. Every collector has different goals and gets satisfaction from the hobby in different ways. Everyone has to decide what works best for him or her.

Best,
Skip

**johannes post** · 03-03-2007, 11:50 AM

maybe is it that the before the euro european collecters
thinking in gulden ,dm ,frank,etc. but if you see 6800 dollar for a cased p/o and you have seeing the same type of badge sold for 7 years back for 700 gulden you are thinking what is happening

.
"vendeu huis zwolle"
and yes i am in panic in this moment "5000 dollar "

regards johan

**Kevin V.** · 03-03-2007, 01:10 PM

I would say 3000$, but to me 5000 $ is way to much!!!

sincerely

**Darrell** · 03-03-2007, 01:38 PM

Originally posted by johannes post View Post

........the first who said 5000 dollar can also take my wife

regards johan

Johan .... some would throw in the badge for free if the guy took the wife

**johannes post** · 03-03-2007, 03:56 PM

regards johan

Originally posted by Darrell View Post

Johan .... some would throw in the badge for free if the guy took the wife

**George L** · 03-03-2007, 10:49 PM

Well said, Jos.

We should all collect because we like the items, and not that they will be worth more down the road. It's possible the bottom could fall out of the hobby (ex the recent Valor Act in the USA prohibiting the sale of certain US awards) in which case they're illegal to sell. What do we do then??

Maybe the prices get so goofy that no new collectors get in, OR young kids have no interest in it...so that's what I always try to buy what I like and like what I buy. Speculating on future values is foolish IMO.

**Andy B.** · 03-04-2007, 08:42 AM

[quote=George L;1869780]Well said, Jos.

We should all collect because we like the items, and not that they will be worth more down the road. It's possible the bottom could fall out of the hobby (ex the recent Valor Act in the USA prohibiting the sale of certain US awards) in which case they're illegal to sell.

Hi George,
Just a bit off topic, but what you stated concerned me. So, I looked up the Stolen Valor Act. I found this thread relating to the House resolution:
http://www.homeofheroes.com/herobill/hr3352.html
If I read it right, it seems to refer to individuals who misrepresent themselves as award winners. If I'm mistaken, please let me know. I bought a purple heart medal a while back because I think its one of our nicest looking medals. I would hate to get in trouble for having it and not earning it.

Back on topic. I agree with what everyone is saying. Although let me add this,
I would venture to say everyone here does look to the future price of the awards they buy as it would be silly to buy an item expecting it to decrease in value.
Sincerely Andy B.

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