Gents,
I have come across these two for Brehmer. Please provide your thoughts:
I have come across these two for Brehmer. Please provide your thoughts:
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I guess the one I had was the first mark. best wishes,
jeffLooking for a 30 '06 Chauchat magazine. -
Are they different?
MarcComment
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Marc,
What's to say they didn't have more than one stamp?
I have seen these badges with a wide variety of markings from very deep to virtually non-existant.
You already have my PICS, but here's another one showing the maker's stamp. It looks different than both, but has attributes of the one on the left more IMO.
TimLast edited by Tim Ball; 03-25-2007, 08:27 PM.Comment
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Different depth, angle, certainly. But is it a different marking?Comment
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I've tried to line these marks up to do a comparison. They look like the same mark to me with differences probably attributable to the marks being made at different angles and pressure, plus the obvious photo angle difference.
The only thing that jumps out at me is the last "E" in Kirchen. But I can't tell if these are real differences in the mm or just due to the stamping process and photo difference.Visit my Badge Collection: http://lbmilitaria.homestead.com/home.htmlComment
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I compared the wrong pictures.
Comparing the two marks in post # 1....they are definitely different!!!Visit my Badge Collection: http://lbmilitaria.homestead.com/home.htmlComment
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Lorenzo,
What if the top badge is slightly vaulted so the center part can not get an even strike? This would also elongate the edges - would it not? We have been collecting these things for a while - until I have started working on this book I have never REALLY questioned variations in maker marks like this.
Were there 10 guys with the stamps sitting there, each with slight variations due to angle, arm strength, and time of day? Or were there multiple stamps because one broke, or was lost or who knows?
Just thinking out loud...
MarcComment
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Hi Marc. Vaulting can certainly have an impact on how a stamp marks the badge. However, in this case, the different shapes of the letters and the way the letters are misaligned would indicate a completely different mm stamp.Visit my Badge Collection: http://lbmilitaria.homestead.com/home.htmlComment
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Lorenzo,
Ah...very nice - now I see what you are saying. Yes. I hope we are all learning something...
Please continue to post Brehmer mm. Do we have any reason to think the same with other Luftwaffe makers? This book is the best thing I have done for myself. Nothing like getting deep into a subject.
MarcComment
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Hi Marc,
I agree that the marks are different, which under normal circumstances would raise a ‘red flag’ if found on a badge where another mark type was expected. In this case, both marks have been found on badges which are undoubtedly original, which begs the question: has one of these marks (and I’m talking about the one on the right in the original comparison as, imo, the one on the left is the accepted norm for Flak badges) been applied post war?
If it had been any other maker there would have been doubts, but with “Gustav Brehmer” products there is a history of different maker marks being used, which took a little time to research, hence my delay in replying to this most interesting thread.
<O
So, two different mm stamps, why? Well here’s the theory… The ‘Flak Badge’ was instituted on the 10<SUP>th</SUP> January 1941, prior to this ‘Brehmer’ is known to have been involved in the manufacture of a host of different awards, including HJ trade competition badges and award plaques for the ‘NSFK’, to name a couple.
I’ve posted a compilation of ‘GB’ marks produced pre ’41 to show that the firm had various mm’s and probably used existing mm stamps on their Flak badges.
Anyway, that’s the theory and here are the mm’s to consider.
<O
1938 HJ (top) this mark is of the raised type, but shows that the die cutter used a similar font type to the right-hand mark in the original comparison.
<O
1938 NSFK plaque (middle) again, a different font type.
<O
1939 NSFK plaque (bottom). This mm matches the type (left, in the original comparison) that is generally considered correct for the Flak badge series and suggests that this was the mm stamp in use by ‘Brehmer’ at the time of the institution of the flak badge.
<O
Where the other mm fits in is anyone’s guess. Either ‘Brehmer’ made a new stamp, due to the end of the life of the existing stamp, or used two stamps at the same time.
<O
A lot of waffle, but hope it helps to put a timeline on the ‘Brehmer’ maker mark issue.
<O
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J,
Thanks for the info - VERY informative. This thread is the kind of discussion we need to see more often. Well, i have to tell you all the badges in this thread are authenic. I handled all the Brehmers, and they are spot-on. I am awaiting a better shot of that maker mark - wouldn't you know it when the badge was photographed we forgot that one detail!
Still, very interesting...and maybe more to come?
MarcComment
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I just received this badge, and wanted to add my maker mark to the group here...
RobertComment
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Interesting - so yours is actually the first one as you see how the letters line up. I guess the badge was not as vaulted as the first and so the depth was different on the edges...
MarcComment
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Here are two identical badges with totally different hallmarks.
Bob HritzIn the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.
Duct tape can't fix stupid, but it can muffle the sound.Comment
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