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**IVAN** · 03-17-2003, 05:19 PM

Originally posted by robert pierce
Yes, Ivan, my para badge is a second pattern. But the Juncker pilot I posted is a second pattern, not a third pattern. I can post a third pattern Juncker pliot if you want. Happy to do so. I'm posting here the badge Thorsten spoke of originally. From what I can see in the fuzzy photos it looks alright. It would be nice to see a closeup of the maker mark. The front toe has been filed as is common with the paras. Wreath looks good as well as the pin and catch. Hinge is good. Rivets look real good. The bands on the wreath are a good sign too; No dip in the wreath at the bands. Like I say, I would like to see the maker mark if possible.

Robert

yes, I haven't look it well. if I remember well, we have spoken in some recent thread about juncker's pattern.

here is my 3rd pattern

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pilota juncker 3tipo 50%.jpg (91.3 KB, 111 views)

**IVAN** · 03-17-2003, 05:22 PM

about para badge, I cannot say something about it, too little photos. sorry. can you try to get more closed?

Ivan

**Robert P.** · 03-17-2003, 05:39 PM

Thank you, Ivan. This is very interesting. I'm hoping Thorsten supplies us with a good photo of the maker mark to satisfy his concerns. Talking a little more about the second and third pattern Juncker wreaths, I have some Juncker Observers that have the same wreath as your third pattern pilot posted here and others with the second pattern wreath. On another Observer by W. Deumer, he used the second pattern Juncker wreath. With these variations in wreaths I can pretty much tag them as to when they were produced. Here too is a photo of a third pattern Juncker pilot. Just love these pilot badges.

Robert

Thanks for the help, Ivan. I hope the narrator will forgive us for getting way off from where we started here.

Attached Files

mr17-001.jpg (116.5 KB, 106 views)

**Robert P.** · 03-18-2003, 12:59 PM

OK, I just got some larger photos from Thorsten. Maybe these will help a little more. I enhanced them the best I could. He is still working on getting a photo of the maker mark from the seller. Does anyone have any opinions?

Robert

**Robert P.** · 03-18-2003, 01:03 PM

front...

**Robert P.** · 03-18-2003, 01:07 PM

reverse...

**Mado** · 03-18-2003, 01:14 PM

Hello Robert
I have sent you a picture of the maker mark. Have you got the picture. If not I will try it again...
Thorsten

**Robert P.** · 03-18-2003, 01:18 PM

No, I only got the photos I posted. No maker mark photo yet. Please try again.

Robert

**Mado** · 03-19-2003, 01:59 AM

Hi Robert,
I have sent you the photo again. I´m very excited to hear how you like it.
Thorsten

**Robert P.** · 03-19-2003, 01:14 PM

Thorsten,
The maker mark is not clear. It is really hard to make a concrete call on this mark. I think I can see the set back 'L' in BERLIN, which is good, although the copies are starting to use this same feature. I like the shear marks I see on the bottom edge of the wreath in this photo as well as the catch. Let's let the pros take over from here. What do you think, guys? Can you work with these photos?

Robert

Attached Files

p31800066.jpg (29.7 KB, 66 views)

**IVAN** · 03-19-2003, 02:58 PM

Hi Robert,

sorry but I cannot again to say something, not clear. Dangerous to give opinions without a very clear photo!

fine to see you know it around the "L" in Juncker's mark.

I want to add that fakers have update other syllables too!!

are very,very near to made it perfectly.

here is an example of hallmark of a fake I have had in my hands some years ago of a round pilot in tombak , silver frosted very good done. hope this photo can help someone.

Ivan

Attached Files

marchio juncker su pilota rotondo.jpg (14.4 KB, 63 views)

**Robert P.** · 03-19-2003, 04:35 PM

Hi, Ivan.
I can understand your opinion. The photos are not very good. I was hoping to see a real good photo of the maker mark too. I am posting a photo of a true Juncker maker mark to compare with the maker mark of the repro previously posted. I can see that there are a few discerning faults with the repro as good as it may seem. One thing that really stands out to me is the straight line at the bottom of the top and bottom row of lettering. The repro really lacks this feature. And also the lack of uniformity to the depth of the lettering with the repro.
Thorsten, I don't think we're getting the feedback to this thread due to the lack of clear photos. It's hard for anyone to commit. I like the looks of the large front view that you supplied. But all in all, that one view is really not enough. It really resembles my Juncker para, all the features look the same. It might possibly be a cast piece. No way of knowing without clearer photos. If you are intent on buying, get a return priveledge established and then post some better photos here again.

Robert

Attached Files

trghc.jpg (34.6 KB, 60 views)

**Mado** · 03-19-2003, 04:53 PM

Thank you all for your opinion. I will buy this badge and send better pictures to Robert.
I will send the badge to Detlev to proof the authencity. If it´s genuine it is a very good deal. The badge with miniature and badge will cost me 650 $
Regards
Thorsten

**Robert P.** · 03-19-2003, 09:28 PM

I'll be happy to post the pictures for you, Thorsten.

Robert

**Lorenzo Brown** · 03-19-2003, 09:47 PM

The scans are not that good, but from what I can see the badge looks good. Eagle, wreath, hinge, small dome-flattened rivets, coloring of the wreath. Notice that the C-catch is beveled at the bottom...typical of Juncker. Also the mark looks good to me. I would like to see better scans...but it looks good to me from here.

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