CEJ air gunner's badge

[Ralph Heinz]

The back of this early CEJ Luftwaffe Radio Operator/Air Gunner's Badge has the number "465" scratched into it along with the man's initials "K.L."

I assume the number is for a flying unit and if so what unit does the number "465" represents and where it was located, etc?

[skip]

Hi Ralph,

i know nothing of the numbers but that looks like a really nice badge.
Can you show us a pic of the front please?

Skip

[Joseph D'Errico]

Hello Ralph,

Check this site out;

http://www.feldgrau.com/luft.html

Best Regards,
JD

[Ralph Heinz]

Front view of badge

Here is a front view of the badge. I noticed that this morning Detlev has one like it but with a replaced catch for sale on his new items list. He stated that this was the earliest version of this badge made by Juncker.

Joseph, I checked feldgrau.com's listing of units but they don't have all units listed and '465' was not among the ones they did have so I still don't know what kind of unit this was. It would be nice to identify the unit so some "history" can be attached to the badge.

[Frank Heukemes]

Hi Ralph,

Very nice, check it against this Juncker that is also first pattern in eagle and wreath, but already with the "regular" Juncker mark!

Cheers, Frank

[Frank Heukemes]

rev

[Lorenzo Brown]

Ya' learn sumthin' new everyday!

Notice Detlev's description of the CEJ Radio Gunner badge where he says ..
".....special wreath with "gaps" for the wings of the eagle".

I have this badge ( CEJ Radio Gunner ) and I confess that I didn't know what he was referring to. So I checked mine out and...

..Sho' enuff...it looks like Juncker recessed the oak and laurel leaves on the top of the wreath so the wings sit flush. Nice touch!!

Here are pics of mine...notice how the wreath has been "flattened" to accomodate the wings!

[Lorenzo Brown]

pic 2

[Lorenzo Brown]

pic 3

[Lorenzo Brown]

pic 4

[Frank Heukemes]

Dear Lorenzo,

Yes, mine has that too. Now I wonder if not ALL 1st pattern wreath radio/gunners have these recesses in the wreath...

Cheers, Frank

[Lorenzo Brown]

Hi Frank. I also wonder if any other Luft badges have this feature? I've checked my other badges and I haven't seen it!

Does anybody have another Luft badge that has this treatment?

[Joseph D'Errico]

Hello Ralph,

I just got in and did a check through my printed reference material. Their was no flying unit 465. Can't really say at this time what that number stands for? Maybe missions? I will post something if I find out more.

Best Regards,
JD

[ERIC S.]

Me Too

My 1st pattern Air Gunner also has these recesses - and it carries the full maker name C.E. JUNCKER BERLIN SW rather than CEJ. This is leading me to believe also that maybe all the first pattern wreaths for the Air Gunner, regardless of the full maker mark or the earliest CEJ mark, are recessed this way - maybe cut into the die itself rather than finished that way by hand.
ERIC

[D Niemann]

Good morning.
You will find this special wreath with the pilot,observer and airgunner badges.All "CEJ" are that way and some early "Junckers.." also.I assume that they found out that for mass produktion this "gap" was too time consuming so they changed to the regular wreath sometime before the war.Also the very rare 1st typ pilot with the "oval" wreath has this special wreath ! So as a side line I would put i.e. the pilots into following sequence:
1. special wreath "CEJ"
2. special wreath "C.E.Jun...SW" thin
3. normal wreath -"- thin
4. -"- -"- thick,heavy badge
5. -"- "C.E.Juncker Berlin SW 68" zinc

Some anormalities,like a Juncker badge with out a maker mark or pieces made from Silver or with screw backs are additional varieties but not regular issued pieces other than by mistake.

So even a simple Juncker pilot badge has some potential for in deep collecting.

regards
detlev