Osang para rivet right
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Cheers, Frank
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P/O badge in question rivet rightCheers, Frank
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OUT OF THE PAST
I must be glutting for punishment, but here is my Pilot/Observer Bade by G. H. Osang. Many threads ago this badge was discussed, "cussed" and took apart. It attracted me to the badge because of a GOLD plated swastika. Not being a Luftwaffe inclined collector, I still retained this badge for reference purposes just in case another "Never Made by Osang" badge appeared for discussion. Now is the time to present it again to compare with Frank's.Comment
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REVERSE
Reverse.Comment
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MAKER'S LOGO
G. H. OSANG MARK ON BADGE.Comment
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EAGLE
Here is the eagle close up.Comment
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TWO BADGES MARKED G. H. OSANG
Here are the two "G. H. Osang" badges.Comment
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Thanks Bill!
All that can be said is that nothing is the same on your P/O and my P/O, they are very different (eagle, wreath, hinge, mark, rivets) probably also the catch.
Cheers, FrankCheers, Frank
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Hi Frank:Originally posted by Frank H
Thanks Bill!
All that can be said is that nothing is the same on your P/O and my P/O, they are very different (eagle, wreath, hinge, mark, rivets) probably also the catch.
Cheers, Frank
Are either original period badges in your opinion?
BillComment
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P/O Osang?
Reference photo "side shot from under the wing" on page 1 of this thread:
IMHO this is where the 'signs' of casting 'seem to be' most apparent.... die struck pieces, and the edges in particular, were normally polished by hand/machine, removing the majority of the vertical lines to the edges, this was done both to outer and inner surfaces. With this in mind, it seems that there are further signs of horizontal lines/projections on this piece, which have also been polished (as a good workman would do), indicating mold marks.
One objection to the judgement previously made as to originality was how/why would only one badge be seen, and not a great many - several logical explanations would naturally follow - there are billions of people on the planet, millions of collectors, and possibly tens of thousands of dealers - as this piece seems either old or has the appearance of age.. it could have been produced quite possibly as many as forty years ago, give a decade or two.
Given the above, what is this P/O? My opinion is simply that which would determine whether or not I would like this piece.. and overall, depending upon the price, I would be tempted, simply as a curiosity.... now isn't that a kicker?? Esp. considering it seems to me that I simply have not yet got sufficient of expertise to have a definitive view.
All the best,
Phil
Last edited by Phil DeWitt; 02-10-2003, 11:37 PM.Comment
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One thing I ask myself when I see a badge like this P/O is, what do we know about badge manufacturing before the LDO (and the other office whatsitname) started to regulate and control the manufacturing and distribution? Could OSANG have started out making this badge, sold some, etc. then the LDO came along and hit them hard for not being unauthorised... too late, some badges have already been sold and being a small number it would be impossible for all these badges to be rounded up and destroyed?
So 60 years later this badge pops up. It’s from a maker not authorised to make the P/O badge. It hasn't been seen before, but isn't a copy of another badge (i.e. the eagle is unique and in this case based on the Juncker design but not a copy of). How can we really know for sure? Take the observer badges also being investigated. It’s well made and not a copy from another badge so where has it come from? Why are there no others like it in circulation? If fake, why are there not more of them?
Are we so blinkered that anything that doesn't have a match with another badge, will we always scream 'fake!' and condemn it instantly? You might think that, because I own one of the observer badges in question that I'm hell-bent on believing it's real...well, I'm not. Simply because I have a life-time guarantee and can take it back at any time even though I've had this badge for nearly 15 years. No skin of my nose! I'm trying, with Frank, to work out if it could be original, it’s really that simple… COULD it be original? Now we have 3 badges with the same wreath – 2 observer, 1 P/O. What should we do?
Everyone seems to want the easy option... it's fake because I've not seen one before... yadda yadda... how many unknown makers of EK's have sprung up lately? Do we discount them because they haven’t appeared before? No, we don’t! Don't forget the WWW has made to world a small place... we can now get information from every corner of the globe. 10 years ago, this amount of access to information just wasn't possible. I feel that we could be making a grave error in condemning the abnormal - take the S&L die flaw. Seems now that these are original to the period (to a certain extent) when only a few years ago these were all being condemned... A firm like S&L and the LDO, etc. would NEVER let such a prestigious award for Germany’s heroes, go out the door with such blemished in the quality…?
I put it to you, should we condemn outright?
RichComment
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I could share my opinion here
First, I am not aware that Osang produced other flying (not para) badges than some LW clasps
Second, the badge presented by Frank here makes me think - not the one presented by Bill.
Third, it is not because a fake is not all around that it is not a fake
Some fake LW badges are only found in one place - allways the same patina, very good as they have fool many here .... but they are fakes
I can't say anything more than Frank's badge is new to me, that I can't tell if it is a fake or original = I don't know but I am very interested by this thread and I agree with Rich with the fact that we don't know all variations and that it is not because a badge doesn't match perfectly with "what is known" that it is a fake.
But this is only an opinion like the fact I believe that MuK never produce pilot badges or that I believe that Juncker pilot badges exist in, at leat, 7 variations when some find 4 or 5 = I could be wrong and I accept to be corrected.
FrançoisComment
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FYI, badge was returned to the seller (private source). The seller (an old German collector) was puzzled that I didn´t like it, AFTER immediately agreeing to take the badge back, no discussions. Said he got the badge from a vet name Klaus Häberlen, KG 51 "Edelweiß". He didn´t offer me this story BEFORE the deal. Is anybody able to check on this?
I almost fell in love with this badge too much to be able to return it, but it has a lot of question marks, although it is in my opinion not a sure fake. Maybe one day I will regret this, who knows? I hate to have to play it safe but in this price range one should be very reasonable.
He will send me an OM for inspection that I will post in Joe´s OM thread once it is here with me.
Cheers, FrankCheers, Frank
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Hi Frank,
I feel sorry for you that you had to return the badge.
BUT :
Better stick with the OM,I've seen many badges that were "all alone" and had a story..
I know a bad person in my surroundings that deals in "questionable" badges,very well made but at least 15 or 20 years old...even Junckers with the good \_ in Berlin !
We all think the "right" Juncker mark is a invention of the last years... well,it isn't !!
You did well IMO.
Jos.Last edited by Jos Le Conté; 02-14-2003, 07:27 PM.Comment
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