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    #16
    yup, Skip...and the hole on its beak..and others on its body. Moreover, the detail is soft. Maybe it's a zinc one, but catch and hinge are for BM. Or....it's a lead(Pb) badge. Matt, can you use this badge to scratch a white paper? thanks

    KR
    Indy

    Comment

      #17
      Under a 10x lense a number of those 'pits' appear more to be surface injuries- they don't look like casting bubbles to me. And there are none visible in the areas where you'd most expect them- the clustered feathers of the wings and breast. And no- it doesn't write as lead would.

      I'm not quite sure why you say the detail is soft- it's in fact better than that on my confirmed authentic Assmann Fallschirmschützenabzeichen...

      Matt

      Comment

        #18
        Because there should be 3 layers of feather...

        As I know so far, they have 3 layers of feather in the red area.
        Attached Files

        Comment

          #19
          Now not that I mind the examination- but one thing occurs: while I can certainly see never before seen originals showing up from time to time, fakes, especially super-high-quality fakes wouldn't just appear uniquely. If this one's bad, it's a 15+ year-old fake and it's completely new to everyone? Surely if someone was going to go to all the trouble and expense of making a high-quality fake that could fool people, there would be more than just my lone example, yes? Now were this a piece I'd just bought with no idea of its previous history, I could understand wondering if it's a new super-fake, but that isn't the case. It makes far more sense to me that it's in fact some lesser maker or just a variant not yet seen. Start with a relatively small number of these badges to begin with, smaller numbers still from each maker, many lost to deaths of the owners, more still discarded or whatever after the war, some that survive still sit in trunks in places... doesn't leave a huge population of even the well-known ones, now does it?

          Fakes on the other hand wouldn't just be sold as one or two. One would think there should be dozens of them out there at the very least- are there?

          Comment

            #20
            Originally posted by Indy
            Because there should be 3 layers of feather...

            As I know so far, they have 3 layers of feather in the red area.
            Ah, okay- there are 3 layers. The last couple are large, just as the third layer on the outer leg are, and just less-defined because of their position, and the photo isn't right to see them clearly. You can see the indication of them though...

            Comment

              #21
              Matt, would you mind posting a large picture of that area? thanks

              KR
              Indy

              Comment

                #22
                You got it Indy- here it is:

                Comment

                  #23
                  ok...that's why I say..soft

                  I cut an Assmann's part to show the 3 layers and their contours are still pretty good.
                  Attached Files

                  Comment

                    #24
                    Okay, granted, then it's not an Assmann But then on theirs the front row of feathers is not exactly nicely spaced or formed. And as I said before the third row of feathers on the outside leg are large compared to the first two, as are the inner ones- there's continuity of size as there should be I'd think.

                    Comment

                      #25
                      hi Matt

                      I think you can check Lorenzo's website. He has several nice Observer badges.

                      KR
                      Indy

                      Comment

                        #26
                        Hi Matt. This is a very interesting badge. I have not seen one before nor can I tie it to a particular maker.

                        I think the badge has a decent strike and, on that basis alone, could pass as a legitimate wartime piece in worn condition.

                        However, I see too many other quirks:

                        1) A "5" stamped into the back with no known explanation.
                        2) A pin marked "PF" with no explanation.
                        3) As mentioned before, the hinge is very troublesome to me. This type of hinge is often seen on fakes.
                        4) The hinge and catch being soldered to the badge is also troublesome. Virtually every maker of zinc badges used attachment plates, or otherwise an extra dose of solder or other mechanism to keep them attached.
                        5) The material is clearly not tombak, but it is not convincingly zinc.

                        Any of these factors alone might be dismissed as a variant. But, with all of these anomalies appearing together on the same badge, I think I would have to see much more positive evidence to convince me that the badge is authentic.
                        Visit my Badge Collection: http://lbmilitaria.homestead.com/home.html

                        Comment

                          #27
                          The catch has an odd shape...it is very angled...not something I am used to seeing.

                          Comment

                            #28
                            Wow- this is all pretty depressing In my hand it seems like such a beautiful piece- no way it couldn't be real... but indeed so many oddities, while they don't necessarily mean it's bad, don't help in the positive column either. I guess this one gets to keep living with me...

                            Thanks guys, I appreciate the help.

                            Matt

                            Comment

                              #29
                              Sorry Matt,

                              forum opinion seems to be against your badge but in the end you are the one who must be satisfied. If this badge "speaks" to you then keep it as an original. For sure don******180;t throw it away or destroy it.
                              I have a couple of questionable badges in my collection. I think there OK and thats why I keep them.

                              Skip
                              LOOKING FOR ALL ITEMS CONNECTED TO HERBERT SCHOB.

                              Comment

                                #30
                                Thanks Skip- and I certainly have no hard feelings about the 'bad reviews'- a piece is what it is and if there are issues, I'd rather know about them to be honest. I know it's not much fun to have to give bad news- I had to tell someone once that his entire collection of 50+ SS Erkennungsmarken were all clearly fakes (he didn't believe me of course), but it was still a real bummer. I'm sure all of us would prefer to only ever give good news.

                                I'm definitely not throwing this one away and knowing that there are issues really doesn't make me think any less of it to be honest. I'm not exactly holding out hope that some day it'll be found to be quite authentic, but it won't surprise me too much if it does happen The only down side is that I now know it might not be possible to sell it should I have to.

                                Matt

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