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    #1

    My First Ever Pilots Badge, An Early Junckers

    Hello

    I've just recieved this early Junckers marked Luftwaffe pilots badge. The scans of it just don't do it justice. In the hand it is really, really nice.

    I've given it good examination and as far as I can tell it's ok and original. However this is the first one of these that I have purchased, and although I have read up on these, both here in the forums and in reference books, your comments and observations will warmly welcomed.

    Oh, the blue thing in the scans is a plastic 'security / ID' tag that the dealer has put on it.

    Many thanks.

    Regards
    David
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    #2
    Rear
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      #3
      Rear, pin up showing makers mark
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        #4
        Close in of makers mark, (sorry it's a bit blurred. Best I could do with my loop and camera !!)
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          #5
          Hi David, a very nice textbook pilot badge in tombak.

          But rather than an early one, its really what's considered a 3rd pattern Juncker eagle and wreath, not that there's anything wrong with that, just that I would consider a 1st pattern badge "early".

          Alan

          Comment

            #6
            Hello Alan

            Thanks for the kind comments.

            I described it as 'early' as from what I have researched on these I thought this was a 2nd pattern version. The really early version, what I would describe as the 1st pattern, has the small cut out between the eagles legs, then came the version I have, (or believe that I have), and finally the last, or 3rd version. The version I have here has a convexed wreath and small domed rivets, all of which I am led to believe are indicators of the 2nd pattern. The third pattern is described as having small flat rivets, well in my reference books anyway. The feet on the eagle also appear match up to pictures of the second pattern as does the patterning of the feathers etc on the eagles neck but not to the first or third.

            Am I wrong in my assumptions ? Any pointers as to why you feel this is a third pattern and not a second pattern would be greatly appreciated as it will help me to learn about these awards.

            Many thanks.

            Regards
            David

            Comment

              #7
              David,
              having recently picked up my first Luftwaffe pilot badge,I've also been focusing on these too.

              The easiest way to tell the differeence is by the claws.There are other pointers too...

              Check out the picture below which is from Lorenzo Brown's excellent website.

              http://lbmilitaria.homestead.com/
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                #8
                Hi David,

                Nice Pilots badge.

                As for your question regarding the period/pattern of the badge, yours is a J3 or 3rd pattern. There are 3 basic patterns of eagles and 3 patterns of wreaths. Usually patterns are found pure i.e. J1 eagle and wreath and J2 eagle and wreath but occasionally the pattern eagles and wreaths can be mixed, i.e. J2 eagle woith J3 wreath.

                The 3rd is the easiest, for me, to distinguish due to the "thick" talons. The 1st and 2nd patterns have talons that are thin. The 1st and 2nd pattern differ from each other in that the wing feathers are different. It is easier to see if you have a picture! The wreaths differ from one another in depth of the leaves and pattern of the leaves. Again, the 3rd pattern leaves are the most 3 dimensional. The differnce between a 1st and 2nd pattern wreath is much more subtle and involves the actual design of the leaves.

                As for cut outs, that is just a manufacturing variation. Desirable by some but not something, I believe, that distinguishes a J1 from a J3 etc. There is a thin wreath pattern in which the overall thickness of the wreath is much thinner than that of other patterns. These are the very early pattern badges (mid 30s version, I believe). Additionally, the earliest badges have the CEJ manufacturer mark as opposed to the full text. And of course later badges that are made of zinc will have the full Juncker text as well as the SW 68.

                Hope this was helpful.

                Gary B

                Originally posted by DavidM
                Hello Alan

                Thanks for the kind comments.

                I described it as 'early' as from what I have researched on these I thought this was a 2nd pattern version. The really early version, what I would describe as the 1st pattern, has the small cut out between the eagles legs, then came the version I have, (or believe that I have), and finally the last, or 3rd version. The version I have here has a convexed wreath and small domed rivets, all of which I am led to believe are indicators of the 2nd pattern. The third pattern is described as having small flat rivets, well in my reference books anyway. The feet on the eagle also appear match up to pictures of the second pattern as does the patterning of the feathers etc on the eagles neck but not to the first or third.

                Am I wrong in my assumptions ? Any pointers as to why you feel this is a third pattern and not a second pattern would be greatly appreciated as it will help me to learn about these awards.

                Many thanks.

                Regards
                David
                ANA LM #1201868, OMSA LM #60, OVMS LM #8348

                Comment

                  #9
                  Hello

                  Thanks for all your responses. I appreciate the help. The main thing is, at least it's the genuine article !!

                  Regards
                  David

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Nice badge - congratulations!

                    Scott

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                      #11
                      Yep, a real badge for sure. One thing to add on the cutout between the legs may or may not be found on even the 1st patterns in my opinion.

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