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    #1

    Same wreath on many different badges ???

    In studying the wreath on my new Deumer observer badge, I find that the wreath is the same style that exists on many of my early flight badges, both pilot and observer. I'd like to exhibit some examples to all of you and hopefully discuss this phenomenon together. I find a 'dimple' on the first laurel leaf at the bottom of the wreath on some of my badges, while on others of the same maker the leaf is void of this same feature. The badges I have found this 'dimple' on are:

    1) Juncker observer ( 2nd pattern )
    2) Deumer observer ( 2nd pattern )
    3) JMME pilot ( 2nd pattern Juncker style )

    The badges that are void of this 'dimple' are:

    1) Juncker observer ( 2nd pattern )
    2) Juncker pilot ( 3rd pattern )

    To me it is odd that Juncker used two different style wreaths for their same pattern observer badge. I can see this same 'dimple' on the badges that Juncker supplied parts for: Deumer and JMME. I have found badges on Lorenzo's site that have this same 'dimple' feature. A list of these are:

    1) Juncker 2nd pattern pilot
    2) Imme pilot ( 2nd pattern Juncker )
    3) Deumer 2nd pattern observer
    4) Juncker 2nd pattern observer

    Here is a photo of my first example, a Juncker 2nd pattern observer with dimple...

    Robert
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    #2
    Photo of another 2nd pattern Juncker observer w/o dimple...
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      #3
      Photo of 2nd pattern Deumer observer with dimple...
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        #4
        Photo of JMME ( marked IMME ) pilot ( 2nd pattern Juncker eagle features ) with dimple...
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          #5
          And one last photo of a Juncker 3rd pattern pilot w/o dimple. I realize this Juncker pattern is completely different from the 2nd pattern in eagle and wreath design. Can you see the difference in the photos? I'm sure you can. I was shocked to see the 'mix-and-match' in the same pattern Juncker observers. Very concerned until I saw that I wasn't the only soul that had this odd assortment in his collection. I'll have to admit, after looking at Lorenzo's site, I felt at ease once again. Is this an old issue? I suppose it is. I'm a relatively new flight badge collector. Any thoughts or concerns on this? Robert
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            #6
            Hi,
            Juncker 2nd pattern P/O with dimple.

            Jos.
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              #7
              Jos,
              Very interesting that it's on the P/O as well as the pilot and observer. Beautiful finish on your Juncker P/O. Thanks Robert

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                #8
                Along with the "dimple" there is a little "infinity" mark laying sideways on the lower part of the first middle leaf on the left of the bottom ties.

                This is a characteristic of a second pattern Juncker wreath (which is obviously used by JMME & Deumer sometimes).

                You will find a third pattern eagle on a second pattern wreath once in a while. Jos's JMME is one example.

                Care to share Jos??

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                  #9
                  I'll share...tomorrow !
                  To late for that now...
                  Off to bed..

                  Where's the rest ???
                  This is interesting guys !!!!!!!!
                  OK,but don't end up ,it's your own choice not participating in this one !!

                  Juncker Josey.

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                    #10
                    Tim,
                    Thanks for sharing that point of the 'infinity symbol' on the leaf. I can see it in the scans just as you pointed out. That's really interesting that Juncker used such a subtle 'signature' as this on their badges. What an eye-opener. I have looked at my other Juncker badges such as the Para badge and found that this 'dimple' or symbol was not there. Were these details given to only their flight badges in particular, such as the pilot, observer and P/O?
                    Robert

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                      #11
                      Ok,
                      Here's a third pattern eagle on a second pattern wreath.
                      The mark is also present ..

                      Jos.
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                        #12
                        front.
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                          #13
                          and the back..
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                            #14
                            Fascinating! I didn't know that the JMME badges also used the 3rd pattern Juncker dies. Beautiful badge, Jos.

                            What else you got?
                            Visit my Badge Collection: http://lbmilitaria.homestead.com/home.html

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                              #15
                              Fantastic 3rd pattern JMME pilot. I really like the unoxidized eagle on this badge. Here's a photo of a JMME ( marked IMME ) 2nd pattern pilot, with the symbol on the wreath. Photo is not real good yet. I am still learning picture skills. Robert

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