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    #1

    Unknown Flak

    I was taking new pics for my website this morning and was pleased with the outcome of my favourite flak badge.

    I was wondering, do you think these are make from Neusilber? I don't recall ever seeing any non-zinc examples with a base metal showing through. What's your thoughts?

    (Just remembered I had to compress the pic to save on webspace, that's why it looks grainy)

    Rich
    Last edited by Rich G; 12-10-2006, 03:18 PM.
    Interested in hand-stitched EM/NCO LW insignia and cuff-titles
    Decorations of Germany
    Tags: None
    #2
    Richard,
    These badges were produced by Adolf Scholze. I believe they were the earliest of the Flak badges as I have dated period photos from the early part of the war and they are readilly identifiable. My grandfather got his Tombak version in 1942. Due to the early manufacture it is certainly possible that yours is a neusilber, and therefore one of the earliest of the Flak badges. Of course they were made in Tombak and zinc as well.
    Marc

    Comment

      #3
      Originally posted by Flak88
      These badges were produced by Adolf Scholze.
      Marc

      Is that confirmed or an assumption?

      Rich
      Interested in hand-stitched EM/NCO LW insignia and cuff-titles
      Decorations of Germany

      Comment

        #4
        Hi Richard,

        I believe these to be Nickel Silver as you suspect. Check out mine. It is worn on the highlights and on the edges on the reverse. The catch is made of tombak, you can clearly see the yellowish metal in contrast to the silver edges on the reverse.

        It is our assumption that these are from Adolf Scholze due to the similar hinge, pin and catch as found on their marked PABs. Also, the blackening of the badge is similar to their marked 2nd pattern E-boat badges.

        This flak along with an IAB, EK2 and 2 black wound badges were given to me by my grandfather who fought in Afrika and Italy and brought these back. It was because of the these badges that I got into collecting in the first place.

        Tom D.
        Attached Files
        If it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a little

        New Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
        [/SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
        Available Now - tmdurante@gmail.com

        Comment

          #5
          Reverse
          Attached Files
          If it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a little

          New Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
          [/SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
          Available Now - tmdurante@gmail.com

          Comment

            #6
            Catch
            Attached Files
            If it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a little

            New Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
            [/SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
            Available Now - tmdurante@gmail.com

            Comment

              #7
              I think it is much stronger than assumption. Frank has analyzed badges and based on manufacturing details he has linked previously unidentified makers to known makers. We have all accepted this as a legitimate technique. So I would posit it to be much stronger than assumption. If it looks like a duck, smells like a duck, and quacks like a duck, why do we all still ask what we should call it?
              Marc
              PS - woof

              Comment

                #8
                Thanks, just wanted to be sure before updating my website with that information.

                Rich
                Interested in hand-stitched EM/NCO LW insignia and cuff-titles
                Decorations of Germany

                Comment

                  #9
                  I have to chime in on this one. If we assume that the badges marked with AS in a triangle were made by Adolf Scholze, then this badge IS indeed very likely an Adolf Scholze badge. The problem is that we are not sure if AS in a triangle is Adolf Scholze. There is a theory that simply A.S. (without triangle) is Adolf Scholze and that AS in triangle might be another unknown maker or possibly A.D. Schwerdt (the latter is rather unlikely). Until we know for sure, it is best to call these made by an unknown maker.
                  Cheers, Frank

                  Comment

                    #10
                    I read the huge & interesting thread about the AS in triangle maker's mark ; and yesterday, I was reading an old issue of the french Militaria Magazine (#115, feb. 1995 for those interested), in which was an article about the fake PABs : the author stated that the AS in triangle mark stood for Assmann & S******246;hne.
                    Don't throw fake badges at me right away ; Assmann und S******246;hne's logo is one of the most well-known, it was just a remark.

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Thanks to all for the additional information!

                      OK so we go with AS in triangle but who that maker is, is not yet confirmed (I think) unless someone has a Pz badge or the like in a marked envelope.

                      Rich
                      Interested in hand-stitched EM/NCO LW insignia and cuff-titles
                      Decorations of Germany

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Richard,
                        That sounds about right, for now. But I am sure we will get to the bottom of this!
                        Marc

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Richard Gordon
                          .....I was wondering, do you think these are make from Neusilber? I don't recall ever seeing any non-zinc examples with a base metal showing through. What's your thoughts? Rich
                          I have the same badge and it is definitely made of a buntmetal...not zinc. Very unusual and I suspect that it is one of the earlier variants that were mede of cast buntmetal before the switch to zinc.
                          Visit my Badge Collection: http://lbmilitaria.homestead.com/home.html

                          Comment

                            #14
                            In my experience, this type comes in Neusilber, Tombak and zinc. Richard's might be a well preserved Tombak one or a Neusilber one.
                            Cheers, Frank

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Well, it weighs in at 40.3g.

                              Would be interesting to see comparison weights.

                              Rich
                              Interested in hand-stitched EM/NCO LW insignia and cuff-titles
                              Decorations of Germany

                              Comment

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