CE Junker Fallschirmjager badge

[Joseph D'Errico]

Hi Everyone,

I have been watching this thread develope and I must say, that it has gone pretty much everywhere, someone please remind me of what we are trying to establish.

This is really not a sarcastic remark, but this thread has all the twist and turns of a good thriller.



Cordially,
JD

[Frank Heukemes]

Dear Joe,

It has been said the wreath is not Juncker. It has been proven that the wreath actually does have an early Junckers design.

It has been said the eagle is Assmann. It is not, it is just most close to Assmann´s eagle.

It has been said the eagle´s head resembles rather the Imme eagle. This is not the case.

It has been said that there are rumours of an early Juncker para with an eagle similar to Assmann´s. No proof yet.

At this point I think nobody of us can say with certainty good or bad. Just a very strange badge that I would keep for a while if I was DaveK.

All I wanted to prove was that the wreath is actually Juncker, nothing more than that.

Cheers, Frank

[Jos L C]

Hi,
Good observations Frank,
thing is nobody knows about the period between the Juncker army parabadge and the first pattern luft parabadge...
We all know the rather thick "normal" Juncker parabadge..probably 1936 or so...!?
We know little about Juncker,we only know Juncker,Jmme and Deumer to be companions...
The wreath is definately Juncker and the eagle isn't one we know,
so,I give the badge a change till so far...
Detlev had a Pilotbadge once or twice that was smaller than a Junckerbadge and didn't have the 3rings at the bottom of the wreath...,
his guess was ist was a Juncker piece too....prototype !?
I hope to see better pics and things..
Still interesting piece..

Jos.

[Yuri D.]

I want to see a HIGH magnification of the maker's mark on this badge.

Yuri

[Joseph D'Errico]

Hello,
Well, thank you for re-establishing the ground work Frank and Jos.
Onward ho......

One question and I really do not want to open a new can of worms, but is it possible that this piece may also fall into the context of Andy Hopkins Article, Latest and Greatest;http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/war_...ilot_badge.htm

I know that the reference of the aricle is given to pilot badges, but can this also apply to Para badges.

Frank, is this what you are referring to when you spoke of the wreath or at least, the direction you were headed in?

Best Regards,
JD

[IVAN]

Originally posted by Frank H


It has been said that there are rumours of an early Juncker para with an eagle similar to Assmann´s. No proof yet.

At this point I think nobody of us can say with certainty good or bad. Just a very strange badge that I would keep for a while if I was DaveK.


Cheers, Frank

right, I agree me too => maybe it is an original one but is it possible that never it was mentioned from experts till now into original Juncker's types?

never was for sale in Detlev site, I sort Detlev have taken possibility to sale such a piece like this but not sale it, why?
I presume he values it not an official badge from Juncker's firm.

Can be interesting to have his opinion about it.

Ivan

[Mike Kenny]

Hi,

One really good thing about the forum is that old threads can be popped right back to the top!

Any further thoughts or info on this badge?

I ask because one turned up locally and is now sitting in front of me. If any of you know me, you know I have a few other early Juncker LW badges for comparison (including two standard LW Para Badges). I can state with strong conviction that the maker mark, hinge, pin, rivets (not the catch, it appears repaired) and the finish (worn fire-gilt) are all correct for genuine Juncker badges. Imo, this is not some sort of recent repro - the detail is 2 or 3 times as good as the standard Juncker LW Para Badge. Both the wreath (nickel silver) and eagle (tombak) are very thin compared to the textbook variety.

I'll post pics later if anyone's interested??

Regards
Mike K

PS: It's been a REALLY interesting week for new arrivals!!!

[IVAN]

Hi,



I'll post pics later if anyone's interested??

Regards
Mike K

PS: It's been a REALLY interesting week for new arrivals!!!

sure, dear Mike, I am interested to see pics.
As I said, I am not convinced totally Dave's para is a fake, till now I never seen a reproduction of para with this kind of wreath and I can immagine why => first is more detailed then the others and second Juncker's para with this wreath are very rare.

ivan

[Mike Kenny]

Hi,

Pics are linked the long way as they are large size. The reverse image also shows a First Pattern Observer, specifically for comparison of the hinge. Almost no finish remains on the obverse and the swas shows some polishing. The reverse and many edges retain the original fire-gilt finish. Personally, I think this Para variation is a very early one.

Regards
Mike K

http://members.iinet.net.au/~datumge...-obv-X250a.jpg
http://members.iinet.net.au/~datumge...-rev-X250a.jpg
http://members.iinet.net.au/~datumge...-comparedA.jpg
http://members.iinet.net.au/~datumge...MakerMarkA.jpg
http://members.iinet.net.au/~datumge...LeftRivetA.jpg
http://members.iinet.net.au/~datumge...ightRivetA.jpg
http://members.iinet.net.au/~datumge...UndersideA.jpg
http://members.iinet.net.au/~datumge..._HingeTopA.jpg
http://members.iinet.net.au/~datumge...HingeSideA.jpg

[IVAN]

Hi Mike , thanks for share these photos.

they are very interesting for me and I admit that yours has, without doubts, ALL characteristics as early Juncker's type. I like all of yours, maybe the "J" of maker a little bit different, its base normally is more large - but NOT a problem, the hallmark in para Juncker is as must to be - otherwise I like the hinge and pin, what I like is the not its perfect width pin in the hinge, sometimes I see it in original Juncker badges and it is a point a favore to it ( I have a pilot 2nd pattern with the same litle difect as you can see ).

unfortunately I cannot see more the original Dave's pics but if I remember well, it looks the same as yours and so I am incline to say Dave's ( and yours too) would be an original one.

congratulations to you !!

About the period of construction I can presume from the rivets - pin - alloy it can be an early pre-war but not the first type, just after the first pattern.

p.s. have you bought it?

ivan

[IVAN]

.

[Mike Kenny]

Hi Ivan,

Yes, it's now part of my collection. Even though it's radically different from the "textbook" version, everything about it says Juncker to me (including the style of the hand-finishing). If I'd had any doubts about it, the previous owner would still have it! Unfortunately I don't have any provenance, but I'll make some inquiries.

Regards
Mike K

[IVAN]

Hi Mike,

.....can we you the price?

[Brian S]

I wish Tim Calvert would look at this one. He's shared a lot of information with me on the hinge and attachment for Juncker badges and unless I've totally flunked the TC Juncker 101 class, this is totally done according to the methods they utilized and what we do not see on fakes.