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**rhudspith** · 01-19-2006, 09:54 AM

Hi Chay,

Now thats interesting, how did you get over the burden of prooving the item to be fake, usually this ends up in the dealers word against the collector, with the judge obviously not having a clue.

**upbeek** · 01-19-2006, 10:22 AM

easy

when i bought the badge,i new next to nothing about collecting,i was looking on the internet when i got drawn into thirdreichmedals.com
i saw the apb and had to have it,
anyway after owning the jc apb for 2 years i was informed it was a fake
i knew nothing of the existence of this site (not that it would have made any difference ,jc will accept a fake badge back but at 66% what you paid for it)
so is what i did was stumble accross JORG NIMMERGUT on the internet who gave me the expertise which is all you need for a total refund by force,which is all that jc understands,
i did try detlev niemann but he would not get involved in this sticky situation (im not surprised)

when it went to court jc claimed i had swopped the badge i had been sold by him and made a fake myself by casting his original,plus loads of other wierd and wonderfull discrediting pile of rubbish

i gave the judge the medal i had bought of jc+his photo gurantee (which is very scetchy literally,)and nimmerguts expertise,the judge took no time at all in seeins that all 3 were the same badge and jc owed me ,
is this easy enough to follow?
chay

**upbeek** · 01-19-2006, 10:36 AM

bogus

i think that bogus dealers make money this way

1,they sell a fake badge for say £1000

2,have it returned 1 year later

3,they refund %66 ,keep £340

4,and they have made whatever interest the bank can give on £1000 for a year

5,or the buyer takes them to court which is nightmare scenario

chay

**Jeff V** · 01-19-2006, 12:44 PM

I'm glad for your success Chay! It is interesting how these losers are so quick to try to use the law to protect their fraudulent offerings, when in fact the law in supposed to protect us from people like Jamie Cross.

jeff

**Brian S** · 01-20-2006, 07:26 AM

Just one comment after reading all the posts more closely... This is not a "high end fake". The casting is entirely visible. The laser cut dies from originals are much more 'high end'. We need fake jargon we all can agree on.

**dkelley** · 01-20-2006, 11:12 AM

Juncker stamp on these fakes

If the Juncker logo in consistent with this series of fakes, I would like to see it. If any of you have one of these, sharing that with all of us would be helpful in staving off future purchases.

I saw a Juncker badge the other day, a Glider badge I believe, with a square "J," now that doesn't sound right to me either. What are your opinions on this? As well, the Juncker stamp was quite deep compared to others. I wish I could provide a PIC, but cannot.

Any thoughts? Again, if anyone can provide the logo of this series of fakes, I would personally appreciate it and would serve as a valuable tool for the rest of us.

With Many thanks!
Dan

**Frank Heukemes** · 01-20-2006, 01:15 PM

Here is one:

Attached Files

smHFfake.jpg (107.0 KB, 404 views)

**Frank Heukemes** · 01-20-2006, 01:17 PM

This is another...

Attached Files

3sm.jpg (123.8 KB, 402 views)

**Frank Heukemes** · 01-20-2006, 01:21 PM

On a P/O...

Attached Files

MVC-003S.JPG (40.2 KB, 403 views)

**dkelley** · 01-20-2006, 01:24 PM

Hi Frank!

Thank you for sharing the reverse of this badge. Although I can makeout some of the lettering, there are a whole lot of variants that would raise a red flag. Definately not for my collection!

Thanks again Frank.

Mit Besten Grüßen,
Dan

**mmiller** · 01-21-2006, 06:17 PM

Dan,

Here is another Heer Para, and two different Retired Pilot Badges.

Mark

**dkelley** · 01-21-2006, 07:08 PM

Thanks Mark.

I believe the stamp marks are consistant in these copies, don't you? Of one thing I am confident of, the obverse really gives it away, from what I have seen. Without an original Juncker die, they never can get it just right!

Thank you to all who have contributed to our "knowledge bank" concerning this new series of fakes.

Buyer BEWARE!!!! Indeed...

**nutmeg** · 02-20-2006, 03:32 AM

Originally posted by Sebastian Bianchi

I recieved the following message;

I personally feel that we are using these under "fair use" (ie - not for profit or in a selling context). Since I can not answer Mr. Cross, I would apreciate it if someone else here would (Lorenzo?).

Thanks,

Since it is not being used for commericial gain , based under US copyright law quoted below, IMO it is "fair use".

<TABLE class=statute width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=catchline>
§ 107. Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use

</TD></TR><TR><TD class=dates align=right>Release date: 2005-08-01</TD></TR><TR><TD class=statute>Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include—
(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;
(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors.

</TD><TD class=statlinks vAlign=top><FORM action=/uscode/search/index.html method=post>
</FORM>
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

**rfleming32** · 02-20-2006, 06:32 PM

Wouldn't it be nice if he just admitted his mistake, took his loss like the rest of us, and move on a little smarter in the process. I think we would all respect a person who made an honest mistake but did the right thing. I do.

Richard

**dkelley** · 02-20-2006, 06:48 PM

Well Richard, I couldn't agree with you more. There is not a collector or dealer in the world who hasn't made a mistake. As we learn, which is a mistake making process, hopefully we learn from our mistakes and move on, as you stated.

I am delighted to know this information. I am even more delighted this information can be published anywhere and is protected under copyright laws for the benefit of those who care not to get screwed!

BUYER BEWARE! Indeed!

Thank you good folks for all of your input once again.

Let the Truth Prevail Always -

Sincerely,
Dan

Announcement

Buyer BEWARE!!!! Fake Juncker Observer badge.

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