Juncker 1st pattern pilot maker mark OK??

[Robert P.]

I just purchased this nice early Juncker 1st pattern Pilot badge. The makers mark is a little different from my other Juncker pilots and was concerned. The 'S' in 'SW' is different in that it has rounded corners rather than angular. Does anyone feel uncomfortable with this Juncker maker mark? Sorry for the cut-off photos of this badge. My good camera is out for repairs and I am having to use a digital camcorder with magnifying lens. Thank you in advance. Robert

[Robert P.]

another photo...

[IVAN]

You are right,
it's strange. ( I don't think it comes from a 1st pattern of a Juncker type)

can you show other photos of the badge - full dimentions -?

Ivan

[Robert P.]

another...

[Robert P.]

still the same badge, different view...

[IVAN]

Okay,

this is an early thin type of Juncker's pilot - but the first pattern is marked CEJ boxed and with a "C" cacth - this can come just after the first and with the same wreath used.

Today I have visited a friend of mine and He has show me a very nice 1st pattern marked CEj .

From these photos it's looks good, but I need a photo directly in front and the reverse.

Ivan

[Rich G]

Judging back the close up of the back of the eagle and maker mark, I'd say this this looks cast. The back should be smooth, not pitted in these early badges. I use my example as a template to basing these observations...

Rich

[Robert P.]

Absolutely right, Rich.

You're absolutely right in your observations, Rich. It is cast. In fact, after examining two other recently purchased pilots badges, I find them bad also. They're also cast. One IMME, two Juncker's ( one a 1st pattern and one a third pattern). I bought all three from the same German dealer. Thank you very much. I examined some of my Juncker and Assman Observers Badges and found they had the proper smooth backside that resembles the badge you entered in this thread. And all with all good maker marks. Well, I really had a streak of bad luck. I'm returning all three of them tomarrow for the refund. I'm indebted to you, Rich. Thank you.
P.S. I will reveal the dealer if you desire, to protect other members. But not until someone asks. Robert

[Robert P.]

Rich, here is a Juncker maker mark on one of the three pilot badges in question ( 3rd pattern ). It is the identical style mark that my smooth-back Juncker Observer's badge has. I've examined it very closely with a 10X loop. The catch, pin and hinge on both badges are absolutely identical to each other. This really has me confused now. The wreath on the 3rd pattern is absolutely a Juncker as well as the detailing on the eagle. I really believe the angle at which the photo was taken and the direction of lighting gave the texture a rougher looking surface than what is really there. I'm referring to the original thread's photo of the maker mark you made comment on. And if you look at the 'S' again, you will see a mysterious lower section of the 'S'. It is just not there when looking through the loop. It resembles what your maker mark looks like, only lightly struck. Also the catch has been rewelded. I don't know. I'm still looking for answers. You know the frustration. And it's Christmas!! I'm supposed to be "Ho-Hoing." Robert

[Mike Kenny]

Hi Robert,

Can you provide some good general pics of the 1st pattern badge - front and back and fairly square-on? Scans would be preferable as the light source is white. I agree with you that the very first pic, showing the maker mark, may only be strange because the mark has not been applied evenly - it appears to be correctly formed to me but the lower line is only lightly impressed. I've seen unevenly struck maker marks on other Juncker badges. The lighting in that image does make the reverse of the eagle look cast though, however the wreath looks OK. A lot of other things look good about the badge but I personally can't tell one way or the other as to it's authenticity with the images provided so far.

Regards
Mike K

[Robert P.]

Thanks, Mike. I'll have some scans ready for you in a short while. I can't get the entire badge in focus with my digital camcorder. I'll use my scanner instead. Robert

[Robert P.]

Mike, here is the same 1st pattern badge again, front and reverse views. You can see that my scanner is not of any great quality. The catch has been rewelded. I have done some welding in my life and can tell the filler metal is definately new composition. I believe they spot-welded the catch onto the wreath. I can see two 'spots', one to either side of the catch itself. Shiny spots ( grounding areas I presume ). Some very fine filing marks around the catch area ( preperation for the new weld ). A point to bring out in this piece: I can see two very small, narrow file marks just above the hinge on the wreath where the maker cut out the middle of the hinge after welding the ends to the wreath. I have read on the forum that this was Juncker's practice. I also have an Assman badge with this same method used. I hope these photos help. I will have my good camera back in the middle of Jan. for better photos. Robert

[Robert P.]

and the reverse...

[Neil Howes]

Repaired catch

Didn't the item description for the 1st type badge say that the catch had been repaired?? I thought it did.

[J Temple-West]

I'll ask..

Hi Robert, who was the dealer ???