Here is a mid war Luft Flak badge. The base metal is either Britainnia or Neu Silber. ~Ed Maroli
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There is no evidence of it ever being plated. ~ED -
Things that make you go hmm...that catch looks like an FLL CCC, or am I nuts?Comment
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Hi,
Ed, looks like a nice example
I'd suggest it it a zinc badge though - probably better quality feinzinc. A catchplate is present and that type of chunky catch is one I've only ever seen on zinc badges - by the unknown maker and, as suggested above, by FLL (I'm sure I've also seen at least one other Luedenscheid maker use this catch as well). The block hinge (no hingeplate) combined with the chunky catch on a catchplate can be found on "unknown maker" Pilot and P/O Badges, although imo it seems to be a less common "transition" combination.
Also, it looks like it may have a dark finish (or a dark patina) from your images. The lower left of the left hand side of the image in poat#2 seems to show a worn lighter coloured zinc basemetal grading into a darker coloured "finish" towards the catch.
Regards
Mike KRegards
Mike
Evaluate the item, not the story and not the seller's reputation!
If you PM/contact me without the courtesy of using your first name, please don't be offended if I politely ignore you!Comment
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BINGO! Glad I remembered something from my WAF schooling. So FLL is looking mighty good...
MarcComment
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I have to agree with Frank H that this is made by FLL.
If you look at the example I have posted, you will see it is virtually mint. The hinge and catch have a coating of the same zinc plate as the badge finish. Only on the bulge of the catch is the gray finish worn to the brass.
When I put it on the e-stand, there was not even a single inquiry. Strange, for such an attractive badge. Note the eagle's head.
Bob HritzIn the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.
Duct tape can't fix stupid, but it can muffle the sound.Comment
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Verso displaying all the gray zinc finish on the brass attachment fittings.
Bob HritzIn the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.
Duct tape can't fix stupid, but it can muffle the sound.Comment
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Detail of the hinge with all the gray finish renmaining over the brass base metal.
Bob HritzIn the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.
Duct tape can't fix stupid, but it can muffle the sound.Comment
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I see no evidence of a finish on my badge. I've looked everywhere. It has a gray/brown patina to it that does not show in the photos. The base metal of this badge was meant to be buffed. It has been in my collection for 5 years and it still shines from the cleaning I gave it then ( WD-40/soft cloth). My guess is Britainnia, a cheaper Neu Silber. Don't forget zink is in most badges. It is the quantity of the zink that determines its quality. ~EdComment
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Very nice flak badges guys......another weakness of mine. Beautiful examples.
I think Frank's Unknown Maker/FLL manufacturing connection is very likely as well.
Perhaps Emaroli or Bob could bring that thread back to the top by adding one of their nice flak badge examples (even though Frank linked the thread here).
DennisComment
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Dear Mike,
It would be interesting if you can confirm this, because I am not aware of it. If your memory is correct this should be investigated.I'm sure I've also seen at least one other Luedenscheid maker use this catch as wellCheers, Frank
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Hi Frank,Originally posted by Frank Heukemes
I've been looking, but I think I've mentioned what sort of mess my image filing system is in! The search will continue.
Regards
Mike KRegards
Mike
Evaluate the item, not the story and not the seller's reputation!
If you PM/contact me without the courtesy of using your first name, please don't be offended if I politely ignore you!Comment
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Hi,
Frank, take a look at post#5 - specifically the catch - in the following thread;
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ad.php?t=18922
Ring any bells? Thank heavens for the forum search engine and my "chunky" way of remembering this catch type - searching my files wasn't working! I don't mean to be cheeky here - could remember seeing it but didn't realise who owned it! Also, whatever you do, don't (DO NOT) look on P109 of your book.
This was one of the other Luedenscheid makers I was thinking of. Believe it or not, I'm sure I've seen the same catch on some later-war Deumer items as well (zinc KVK1s from memory).
Having said the above, I do agree that there is a better correlation between FLL and the "unknown maker" when it comes to the reverse hardware but personally I still think a third party supplying reverse hardware to several Luedenscheid manufacturers is a distinct possibility. Alternatively, one of the Luedenscheid manufacturers used the unique "chunky catch" as well as supplied them to other local firms - but exactly how the "unknown maker" fitted in is the question. A Luedenscheid micro-cosm along the lines of the Gablonze conglomerate?
Regards
Mike K
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PS: you looked at P109 didn't you?Regards
Mike
Evaluate the item, not the story and not the seller's reputation!
If you PM/contact me without the courtesy of using your first name, please don't be offended if I politely ignore you!Comment
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Dear Mike,
Ahhhhh, now I know what you had in mind. I am so lost in details that I thought EXACTLY like the FLL catch, not just "very close." In my opinion the catchPLATE really makes the difference. On FLLs and the "unknown maker" badges it has a very distinctive shape, which is an exact match on both. Hymmen's and Deumers catches are close but still different, especially the catch plate.
I hope I am not splitting hairs here. For me, it is the whole picture. The "chunky" appearance which matches FLL, the metal texture which matches FLL. The hinge and hingepin match FLL.
The designs of the unknown maker badge also do not speak "Hymmen" to me, too well executed to be Hymmens. Could they be Deumers? I doubt it, Deumers badges are quite filigrane, never "chunky." I think many small details speak for FLL. And on top of that FLL DID make Luftwaffe badges as indicated in their sales ad.
...and yes, I looked at page 109!
Cheers, Frank
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