Lolo,
Weight of the first badge = 32/33 gr
Weight of the first badge = 32/33 gr
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Mark Shroeder adds that the hallmark is totally wrong. I agree but would just like to emphasise that this is not my badge. If you go to our website, you will see that a reference and a link to this thread has been added to the description of the badge.
PKLast edited by Prosper Keating; 11-10-2002, 06:21 AM.Comment
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Thank you Detlev and Prosper for your comments. In summary I think we can conclude that the BSW listed on the PLM site can be excluded from further analysis and discussion in this thread. Regardless of any previous COA, the badge has been pooh-poohed by several members, and Detlev has offered to settle with the owner of the badge.
I see nothing more to be said on this particular issue that will contribute to the purpose of this thread.Visit my Badge Collection: http://lbmilitaria.homestead.com/home.htmlComment
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David...Can you provide the weight and measurements of the badge you posted?Visit my Badge Collection: http://lbmilitaria.homestead.com/home.htmlComment
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I apolologize for jumping in late, but I really couldn't let this one go. The BSW badge pictured on the MajorPLM site is a modern reproduction...I am 100% certain of this. Regardless of who sold it and who owns it now, I think it important for collectors to understand this. I know quite a lot about these fakes, having been burned by the Juncker version pictured elsewhere in the forum about 5 years ago. It is currently a paperweight in my office. These fakes were part of a series which used very high quality castings of original eagles by different makers mated to a "generic" fake wreath. This is the "dipping" version you are talking about. The eagles and marks look spot on, as they are castings made from originals. If you look carefully at the eagle, you can sometimes see minute casting seams around the edges, and the surface has a porous look under magnification. They also made fake Observer badges the same way. Again, if this were a "grey area" kind of thing, I would let it go. Not so in this case I'm afraid, at least IMO. Believe me, I would love to find out these were real, as I lost a fairly good chunk of change on mine.Comment
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...Also, the first generation fake wreath included a very odd flange of extra material above the binding on the bottom of the wreath. The fakers fixed this on later versions by grinding the flange off, producing the dip effect. They are the same fake wreath, just finished differently.Comment
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This thread has been cleaned up, but left standing, as it contains a good deal of helpful information. This forum is not to be used a platform to launch attacks directed at any particular dealer, much less one whom I hold in the highest regard. Actually, the innuendos made were insulting to collector and dealer alike. No one that does the kind of volume he does can be absolutely flawless but as an esteemed colleague pointed out, it is never done on purpose, and always corrected.
The owner of the badge has not even stepped forward and the discussion was third hand. If the owner has an issue they please contact me at info@wehrmacht-awards.com.
Please stick to the issue at hand, the badge. If you have a problem with this decision please contact me in private, public outbursts will not be tolerated and will be dealt with swiftly as they do not contribute to this discussion and taint the atmosphere of our forum.
Thank you in advance to all members for you cooperation in this matter.Comment
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Good Seba, well lets move on! Since we are talking about BSW badges, here is the weirdest one I have ever encountered. This is in one of my RK groups to a Luftwaffe NCO fighter pilot. The group was acquired, with documentation from the winner (who is still living), and there is no doubt that it was "his"badge. It is (or was at one time) a BSW pilot badge in zinc. The die characteristics are there, and you can just make out the cloverleaf logo on the back. The badge is heavily damaged, having been broken in several place and the big safety pin attached. The neat thing is that in wartime photos of the RKT, you can see him wearing the badge just as you see it. I've included a blow up of one pic. The original is more distinct, but you can make out the safety pin and the thick soldered area on the right (facing) wing, where it looks like the wing was broken and put back together. This badge also has a threaded hole for what looks to have been a screw back attachment. The solder is actually very old and dull. Pretty ugly, but lots of historyLast edited by Luftm40; 11-10-2002, 01:37 PM.Comment
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Pic in wearComment
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Allow me to thank all the members for their input on the subject, I think that we can now say that we have a definitive reference on the matter of the BSW pilot's badge.
Many thanks and best regards.... JohnComment
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The zinc badge that Andy shows appears to be a Type-A or A-1 badge. This would suggest that the Type A , A-1 badges would have been the 2nd pattern, and the Type B (smaller badge) would have been the 1st pattern.
PS- Might be better just to say that it suggests... "that the Type A, A-1 design was in use at the time they switched to zinc."Last edited by Lorenzo Brown; 11-11-2002, 09:29 AM.Visit my Badge Collection: http://lbmilitaria.homestead.com/home.htmlComment
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Another observation for the Type A and A-1 badges shown on this thread:
It appears that the Type A-1 badges (with connections between the swaz and talon) all have the Shamrock logo. It looks to me that all of the Type-A badges (without connections) have the spelled-out logo. The badge that Stogie pictured has the shamrock logo, but I can't tell if it has the connection between the swaz and talon....Also what kind of rivets does it have?
Can you tell us, Stogie?Last edited by Lorenzo Brown; 11-11-2002, 09:12 AM.Visit my Badge Collection: http://lbmilitaria.homestead.com/home.htmlComment
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More photos ...
Gentlemen,
I don't know if this is the least bit helpful at this point but included below are photos of the BSW badge I have in my collection. It came directly from the pilot who was awarded this badge in October 1943. He flew JU88's and ME262's in the war, lives near Munich, is a close personal friend, and I will be seeing him this weekend. It is hard to see but his initials are engraved on the back of one of the eagle's wings. I have previously run these photos on the site but do so again for your enjoyment and perhaps the education of newer forum members. This is the only pilot's badge I have that came from its original owner.
Mike Heuer
Collecting mint condition Imperial German uniforms, visor caps, and Pickelhauben.
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Another view
Picture #2
Collecting mint condition Imperial German uniforms, visor caps, and Pickelhauben.
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