IMME rebate ?

[Ferg 1]

Hi guys. Just need your help please. I wonder if anyone with any IMME/ JMME badges could just look to see if there is any evidence of a rebate or ‘ trench’ under the hinge barrel that the barrel was placed into to help soldereing alignment ,not easy to see but sometimes can just notice a sign of the recess on the end of the barrel . Also Junckers for that matter . Any clues would be appreciated

[e-maus]

I did not notice the detail you've mentioned. I enclose photos
Jacek

[Sebastien T]

Ferg are you looking for alignment lines on top of the wreath . is so IMME have them but they are very faint to nil. Most example dont have them. There is no mills under the hinge center part.

Seb

[spectre]

Here is my JMME pilot, I thought this was a saw mark from cutting the center out of the tube for the hinge?
Alan

[Ferg 1]

Thanks guys, probably not explaining myself too well.
The rebate I am trying to discover is actually under the barrel of the hinge . Imagine the badge reverse before the barrel was soldered on , the area of attachment would have a shallow groove the length of the barrel , to place the barrel in so as to keep the barrel aligned when soldered on . So it would just sit in the groove prior to attachment . Obviously this cannot be seen at all clearly but occasionally it may be apparent . One good way to see this is to notice the end of the barrel is slightly ‘ sunken ‘ into the base of the reverse . Hope this makes sense !
Ferg

[Albert]

Thanks guys, probably not explaining myself too well.
The rebate I am trying to discover is actually under the barrel of the hinge . Imagine the badge reverse before the barrel was soldered on , the area of attachment would have a shallow groove the length of the barrel , to place the barrel in so as to keep the barrel aligned when soldered on . So it would just sit in the groove prior to attachment . Obviously this cannot be seen at all clearly but occasionally it may be apparent . One good way to see this is to notice the end of the barrel is slightly ‘ sunken ‘ into the base of the reverse . Hope this makes sense !
Ferg

I know exactly what you mean, but no longer have any Imme badges to look at. However, I believe that this "indentation" along the length of the moving barrel part of the hinge was not for alignment, but to support ease of movement by avoiding potential contact/ friction of the barrel with the surface of the badge below.

[Jean-Claude]

Hi Ferg

Sorry no JMME/IMME badges to examine but what you mean is something like the attached "doodle" where the hinge is partially enchased in the back of the wreath? Hard to say because of the welding but, if so the hinge pin would always look "off-centre" and closer on the wreath side

Cheers JC

[Sebastien T]

It was not a practice of making badges. Only crimped hinge and catch will have a die recess on rhe wreath. Deumer milled out a trench under the hinge center part but not under tubing.

Seb

[Ferg 1]

That’s exactly right JC , your ‘ doodle’ is what I am looking for , it seems that certain IMME and Juncker badges seem to have this slightly off set or sunken look to the hinge pin and barrel edge . Have you seen this employed at all ?
Ferg

[Ferg 1]

Seb, can you show an example of crimped pin and catch?

[Jean-Claude]

That’s exactly right JC , your ‘ doodle’ is what I am looking for , it seems that certain IMME and Juncker badges seem to have this slightly off set or sunken look to the hinge pin and barrel edge . Have you seen this employed at all ?
Ferg

Sorry Ferg...I only have a few Deumer & Juncker badges and none of them have the sunken hinges you are looking for (based on what I can see from my picts).

I do know however that Assmann had wreath dies with built in hinges on aluminum badges to eliminate the need to attach hinges during construction. If wreath dies were made with a protrusion that served as a hinge on aluminum badges I dont see why wreath dies couldnt also be indented on the back to serve as a guide to accurately posiition the hinge barrel for soldering on tombac pieces but I dont remember ever seeing any

JC

[Sebastien T]

Here you Ferg, you can see the small recess where the hinge plate is inserted. What JC draw I have never saw this on hundreds of example I handle and I doubt you will ever found one. They sits on the wreath or on top of the solder.

Seb

[Ferg 1]

Thanks Seb, that’s exactly what I was referring to on that pic of the assault badge . Do you know who the maker was ? Seems that Meybauer did this on their imperial pilot badges ,see attached . Ferg

[Sebastien T]

The makers who did that are firms from the Gablonz consortium AGMuK (RK, MUK5, JFS, AS...) No Meybauer in the group. I would think because the imperial have a round space where the hinge goes they had to die cast this rectangular recess for soldering purposes...

Hope it help

Seb

[Ferg 1]

Thanks Seb, this is what I am referring to .
Ferg