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**stdub** · 05-08-2005, 12:41 PM

rear

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Erdkampf-Rueck.jpg (57.0 KB, 304 views)

**robert60446** · 05-08-2005, 12:42 PM

In my opinion it is a FAKE! Sorry...

**jeremiahcable** · 05-08-2005, 12:54 PM

Yikes!

Sorry to say that I don't like the eagle at all!! Look at the ugly head on that thing. Just my opinion though.....

Jeremiah

**Frank Heukemes** · 05-08-2005, 01:17 PM

In my opinion an ORIGINAL badge by the "unknown maker", who also made pilot's badges (and other LW badges).
Why?
The eagle which disturbs you was never meant to be exhibited like that. The application with a more elaborated eagle went missing. There are OTHER MAKER designs of this badge where even the underlying eagle is well executed and it can be speculated thet THESE badges were even dished out without applications towards the end of the war.
The hinge, pin and catch with that significant plate are known from many other badges by this maker.
Also look on the reverse to the 3 o c`clock position of the wreath. This ridge is another thing often found on other badges by this maker. You can find it in the 3 or 9 o' clock positions.

**robert60446** · 05-08-2005, 01:42 PM

Originally posted by Frank Heukemes

In my opinion an ORIGINAL badge by the "unknown maker", who also made pilot's badges (and other LW badges).
Why?
The eagle which disturbs you was never meant to be exhibited like that. The application with a more elaborated eagle went missing. There are OTHER MAKER designs of this badge where even the underlying eagle is well executed and it can be speculated thet THESE badges were even dished out without applications towards the end of the war.
The hinge, pin and catch with that significant plate are known from many other badges by this maker.
Also look on the reverse to the 3 o c`clock position of the wreath. This ridge is another thing often found on other badges by this maker. You can find it in the 3 or 9 o' clock positions.

Frank,<o =""></o>

When I totally agree with your “late war production theory”, I have a hard time to understand Germans logic behind this. If you will look at the other details from this badge, you will notice that these details are very poor quality. Why to create another form for this type of badge almost at the end of war…?<o =""></o>

<o ="">
</o>

**Thomas Bendixen** · 05-08-2005, 01:59 PM

Originally posted by robert60446

Frank,<O =""></O>

When I totally agree with your “late war production theory”, I have a hard time to understand Germans logic behind this. If you will look at the other details from this badge, you will notice that these details are very poor quality. Why to create another form for this type of badge almost at the end of war…?<O =""></O>

<O ="">
</O>

Hi Robert

They didn't for sure know if the war were about to end, and if they knew - in a totalitarian system you don't answer your boss, when he suggests - lets make a new badge, "Narhh the war is comming to an end soon so why bother?". This could very easyli get you a rapid leathal lead-infection

Cheers Thomas

**Mark S.** · 05-08-2005, 02:07 PM

On GCB that I have studied where I was able to peek behind the overlay, the ones that had no design on the head, also had no design on the eagle wings either. I also noted that although there was lack of definition to the underlay, it still maintained the basic shape of the eagle applique. I couldnt help but notice that the eagle on the presented badge is flawed in not only detail, but basic shape and design. In the instance of Joergs badge, an applique would "float" over this badge in the area of the head. I have yet to see an applique that wasnt mated precisely to the badge.

I am not countering claims of originality, but adding food for thought.

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01.jpg (39.5 KB, 285 views)

**robert60446** · 05-08-2005, 02:14 PM

Originally posted by Thomas Bendixen

Hi Robert

They didn't for sure know if the war were about to end, and if they knew - in a totalitarian system you don't answer your boss, when he suggests - lets make a new badge, "Narhh the war is comming to an end soon so why bother?". This could very easyli get you a rapid leathal lead-infection

Cheers Thomas

Thomas,

I got your point about “totalitarian system”. However, I was thinking more about almost the end of war (March 1945) as a production date. Why? If we assume that Frank’s theory is correct and the badge is real, please look at the badge details. These details are just ugly…so, badge manufacturer didn’t spend too much time on design. Only one excuse could be use here: they were in the hurry…But then again, why to create another form / design for this type of the badge at this point in war?

**Alexhip** · 05-08-2005, 03:15 PM

Hello,
I'm just interesting about the hole in the eagle's area,
never seen before.
What was the purpose ?

all the best
Alex.

**stdub** · 05-08-2005, 03:23 PM

Originally posted by Alexhip

Hello,
I'm just interesting about the hole in the eagle's area,
never seen before.
What was the purpose ?

all the best
Alex.

First I´d like to thank you all for your answers. I did not think to get so many (and controversial) opinions.

Alex, as Frank wrote, the top eagle is missing and the hole is to fix the eagle with a rivet onto the badge.

The story behind the badge is this: I got it some years ago from a "Haushaltsauflöser" (what is it in english?? I don´t know), togehter with some other badges. All others were original, but I was not sure about this one, so I threw it into a box. Today, when I tidied up a cabinet, I found it again ....

**Frank Heukemes** · 05-10-2005, 04:16 PM

Ok, I will illustrate this then. But first, the badge design is NOT ugly, not aglier than ANY other GAB design. Think away the eagle which was not supposed to be shown like that, without the application, and then you will se it is much the same as any other LW GAB design.

I also wonder why nobody else realizes that this catch and plate is one of the known elements of a variant of the unknown maker's pilot badge!
Same goes for the 3 0'clock and 9 0'clock ridges on the wreath reverse.

Now for more pics:

Another badge missing the application, same maker. Rivet is still on the badge!

Attached Files

15113_1.jpg (56.7 KB, 219 views)

**Frank Heukemes** · 05-10-2005, 04:17 PM

rv

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15113_2.jpg (38.6 KB, 216 views)

**Frank Heukemes** · 05-10-2005, 04:21 PM

Now, SAME maker WITH the application but with a variant setup ALSO known for the "unknown maker" zinc pilot badge. Maybe this is hard to grasp if you do not collect pics and do not know about the unknown maker's setups, but what these pics show and what I stated can be checked by anybody who knows the pilot's badges ZINC variants by this maker.

Attached Files

06943sm.jpg (81.7 KB, 210 views)

**robert60446** · 05-10-2005, 05:43 PM

Originally posted by Frank Heukemes

Now, SAME maker WITH the application but with a variant setup ALSO known for the "unknown maker" zinc pilot badge. Maybe this is hard to grasp if you do not collect pics and do not know about the unknown maker's setups, but what these pics show and what I stated can be checked by anybody who knows the pilot's badges ZINC variants by this maker.

Frank is right! I can see his point clearly now. It was my mistake to say that this badge is doubtful. I was wrong.<o =""></o>

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