Gilt Uboat Badge, Help with maker

[Robbo]

I recently acquired this gilt U-boat badge and wondered if the makers mark R.K is Karneth ?
I've done some initial research which has confused me somewhat as there seems to be another name R.Kreistel
I'm unsure of how to tell which would be correct.
Any help would be appreciated
Robbo

[Pepe77]

Hi Robbo. This badge is considered to be made by Rudolf Karneth Gablonz. It is very nice and so common to come by on the market.

[AndyC]

Good RK Uboot IMO




Andy

[Norm F]

Hi Robbo,

As the others have said, a nice original R.K. zinc U-Boat badge. And as you said, although Gablonz-made, no one knows for sure whether R.K. stands for Rudolf Karneth or R. Kreisel since both were makers with assigned Präsidialkanzlei numbers, (Karneth 61 and Kreisel 67).

A recurring discussion, sometimes in the context of the U-boat and other times in the context of the R.K. Minesweeper badge:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=905393

Best regards,
---Norm

[Robbo]

Thank you for the replies. Looking at the link to earlier discussions I see there's still no real definitive answer as to the R.K mark
If I'm reading correctly it's possible it could be either Karneth or Kreisel..
Is it correct this is a common maker ??
Robbo

[Norm F]

Is it correct this is a common maker ??
Robbo

It's a reasonably common maker, but that's an uncommon variant with the cast-in catch. The RK variant with the crimped-in round wire catch is more common.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Robbo]

Thanks for all the help. Yes, I wondered about the catch as all the other examples I've found have the "crimped" wire catch. Was this design more costly to produce than the wire catch ? hence a design change ?
Robbo

[BubbaZ]

Nice RK zincer, as Norm has said less common variant of this maker.
Cheers,
Hubert

[Norm F]

Thanks for all the help. Yes, I wondered about the catch as all the other examples I've found have the "crimped" wire catch. Was this design more costly to produce than the wire catch ? hence a design change ?
Robbo

Hi Robbo,

We don't know the order in which the different variants were produced. It stands to reason the cast-in hinge would save a step in production and potentially could be more cost effective. However, cast-in hinges were sometimes more prone to breakage, something that was very evident in the Friedrich Orth Fleet badges. So two possible scenarios are:

1) crimped catch first and then switched to cast-in hinge late in the war to save a step in production

or

2) cast-in catch first and then quickly switched to crimped catches due to breakage issues.

And there's a third possibility. Because of the large number of variants of the "RK" Minesweeper and IAB badges, it's also possible that "R.K." could represent a Gablonz consortium of makers analogous to "A.G.M.u.K.". If that were the case then it's possible that a smaller contributor to a consortium produced the cast-in hinge while others produced the crimped catch version.

There's lots we don't know about production contracts in wartime.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Robbo]

I really appreciate all the information. Certainly lot's to digest and think about.