Please help

[DKNYC71]

Dear Forum Members,

Can you please let me know who is the maker of this Auxiliary Cruiser badge if possible. Would appreciate any information and all opinions. Many Thanks to all!

Dave.

[DKNYC71]

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[DKNYC71]

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[DKNYC71]

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[BubbaZ]

Hi,
This is S&L zinc AC badge I am not sure about the finish but judging from the globe and the rivet it was made during war time.
Cheers,
Hubert

[DKNYC71]

Hi,
This is S&L zinc AC badge I am not sure about the finish but judging from the globe and the rivet it was made during war time.
Cheers,
Hubert

Thanks Hubert for your input and information! When you say that you are not sure about the finish, do you mean it may have been re-finished after the war? Certainly looks very old and worn. Would appreciate any other members observations. Thanks in advance !

[BubbaZ]

Yes, it could be refinished but this is hard to tell from your images.
Here is mine of this type for comparison. The gilt on my badge was completely absorbed by zinc except of the hardware.
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...95&postcount=7
Cheers,
Hubert

[BubbaZ]

Here are two other wartime S&Ls that I have.
On this one the gilt is faded but not completely gone like on the one in previous post.
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...89&postcount=5
And this one has the finish looks similiar to yours.
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...80&postcount=3
Cheers,
Hubert

[DKNYC71]

Here are two other wartime S&Ls that I have.
On this one the gilt is faded but not completely gone like on the one in previous post.
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...89&postcount=5
And this one has the finish looks similiar to yours.
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...80&postcount=3
Cheers,
Hubert

Thanks again for your valued input Hubert. In hand it appears like many other TR badges I have had over the years, which retained a good portion of their finish. Others, like you have posted, have had the finish completely gone. here are a couple more images, they seem to be a bit better. But it clearly appears wartime and nothing done post-war in my opinion. Just am example which retained a good portion of the finish. But I appreciate and value all opinions.

[DKNYC71]

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[John R.]

Wartime S and L zinc, the finish IMO is original to the badge.

John

[Norm F]

Like John, I'm inclined towards original finish.

I understand where Hubert is coming from, since we often harbour a grain of salt when discussing S&L, knowing that the business survived the war intact with lots of leftovers for later sale before starting to make new awards in the 1950s. Also, it's true that many wartime-compatible badges used gilding that faded to grey, creating the temptation for later "refreshing" of the finish.

Having said that, we also know wartime price lists described two grades of available finish with different price points -- something we see demonstrated quite readily in Deumer's zinc badges like the U-Boats attached. (This is discussed also in "The Kriegsmarine Awards", Volume 3"). So it's not unreasonable to suppose that S&L, like Deumer, would have two grades of gilding -- the one that faded to grey over time and one that retained it's colour better. I know that Martin's wartime examples also retained their gold tones quite well (although the post-war examples do as well).

All that is to say, there are no post-war "red flags" in the example from the opening post.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

I'm sure Martin won't mind me reposting his photo of his S&L Hilfskreuzers. I put a rectangle around his two post-war assembled pieces while all the others are wartime-compatible (one of which was an unequivocal original brought back by his uncle).

As you can see, there's decent finish on both the wartime-compatible and post-war examples.

Best regards,
---Norm

[DKNYC71]

Like John, I'm inclined towards original finish.

I understand where Hubert is coming from, since we often harbour a grain of salt when discussing S&L, knowing that the business survived the war intact with lots of leftovers for later sale before starting to make new awards in the 1950s. Also, it's true that many wartime-compatible badges used gilding that faded to grey, creating the temptation for later "refreshing" of the finish.

Having said that, we also know wartime price lists described two grades of available finish with different price points -- something we see demonstrated quite readily in Deumer's zinc badges like the U-Boats attached. (This is discussed also in "The Kriegsmarine Awards", Volume 3"). So it's not unreasonable to suppose that S&L, like Deumer, would have two grades of gilding -- the one that faded to grey over time and one that retained it's colour better. I know that Martin's wartime examples also retained their gold tones quite well (although the post-war examples do as well).

All that is to say, there are no post-war "red flags" in the example from the opening post.

Best regards,
---Norm

Thank you very much John and Norm.

Thank you Norm for the detailed analysis. Always great to learn on the form here. As I had stated previously, in hand, it certainly does not appear "re-finished", rather like many period TR badges that retained a good portion of the finish.