“Cupal” FLL Destroyer Badge on Estand

[Tony Bologna]

Good day or evening gents, I find the Destroyer badge for sale in the link below not Cupal at all but in fact a brass piece with some spots of red patina. Do you reckon so?

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=945618

[Patrick W]

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=944644

[Tony Bologna]

After reviewing the link and the links inside the link, I believe that these FLL Destroyers are not Cupal. I make my point here and will update with more support later:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...=802078&page=2

[schwelch]

Hi Tony,

I have one of these CupAl examples and also a tombak example in my collection. The difference in weight is remarkable and on the edges of the CupAl pieces you can clearly see the aluminium as well as the typical layers of CupAl pieces.
These FLL attributed destroyer badges are 100% CupAl!

BR
Sven

[Patrick W]

Tony- these are a known variant! I have the item in hand so I'm sorry you can't tell me it's actually brass when I am looking at it and can see the aluminium. It also weighs in at 12.4 grams which excludes it being made of tombak.
FLL also made the minesweeper in cupal as well as some luft badges- these again are known and documented.

[Thomas Durante]

Hi Tony,

The weight is the key, there is no doubt that these badges are cupal because they weigh only a fraction of what a true tombak destroyer would weigh.

Keep in mind that CUPAL is not the same thing as Aluminum. Cupal is mostly aluminum, but with a very thin layer of copper on top and bottom. So that is where the reddish color is that you may be questioning.

Tom

[Norm F]

Hi Tony,

As mentioned by Sven and Tom, the weight of the FLL Tombak version is about 36 g while the weight of these Cupal ones is only about 12 grams - a huge difference. There would be no mistaking the distinction if you had one in hand.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Tony Bologna]

So I would just ask for one picture showing evidence of the Copper portion. The example above shows the aluminum but there is not a single sign of copper. All arguments about weight are valid, but they only support the Almunimum part, where is the Copper I ask? If the badge above were coated in copper, I would expect to see at least 1 spec of red, especially on the parts most faded and closest to the obverse side.

[schwelch]

Hi,

there are two copper layers around the alu layer. Please have a look on the picture and on the link:
http://www.promet.com/produkte/blech...al-bleche.html
It's written in german, but you can easily see different layers of CupAl (here just two layers).

BR
Sven

[Norm F]

That blowup of Patrick's photo is suggestive of Cupal and also a bronze-coloured finish that extends over the margins.

It would be nice to see better closeups to nail down the process used.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Tony Bologna]

There is a fair amount of information in the thread below on the topic including the “cupal sandwich” which is how I would expect to see the badge above. The thread below is where the cupal theory originated i believe. Apparently someone took sandpaper to the finish and uncovered cupal hidden underneath, so I guess it is possible. For the record, Verdigris can appear from brass so it’s presence does not indicate straight copper as suggested. There is still no clear evidence of a cupal Destroyer and hopefully it doesn’t take sandpaper to prove it

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...al+skip&page=3

[Norm F]

Just updating this thread with the link to the thread which settles the Cupal question with better images:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=802078

Best regards,
---Norm